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A Photographic History Of Scottish Football


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11 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Maybe best example of this I've seen is Paul McQuade. He was Scotland's participant in a Rest of the World team that played England Schoolboys in 2004 for ESFA centenary.

England-V-Rest-of-World-XI-2004-Programm     paul-mcquade-bad56915-cec8-4697-af29-0e8

His adult career seemingly amounted to 1 season with Dundonald Bluebell, 2 with Cowdenbeath, and a few appearances for St Mirren, Forfar and East Fife. Injuries presumably.

I remember him looking a cut above in a game for Cowdenbeath against Montrose(and United said to have been in for him around that time). Think you're right that it was injuries that did him in.

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Doug Cowie sadly passed away yesterday. Lucky to see him play a few times as his last season at Dens was my first season of going regularly. According to The Courier this is him in action against Hibs in 1953. As it looks a nice sunny day it’s possibly from the A Division game on 7th March with Dundee winning 2-0 in front of 30,000

 

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On 23/11/2021 at 00:25, Lurkst said:

I had to google Doug Baillie there as it seems like another lifetime ago that I would read his match reports in the Sunday Post.

He's younger than I thought he'd be, still on the go at 84.

 

One for next years Deadpool, cheers.

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3 hours ago, Eednud said:

Doug Cowie sadly passed away yesterday. Lucky to see him play a few times as his last season at Dens was my first season of going regularly. According to The Courier this is him in action against Hibs in 1953. As it looks a nice sunny day it’s possibly from the A Division game on 7th March with Dundee winning 2-0 in front of 30,000

 

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Although a legend at Dens, Doug Cowie was a man revered by older fans at Tannadice when I started attending. There was less bitterness between the sides in those days, and they recalled his feats for Dundee and Scotland too, at two World Cups. Think he used to be listed as 'Trainer' in the Tannadice programmes for an elongated period from around the mid to late 'sixties. Certainly, he later worked with Jim McLean, and was still, in his mid 40s, regarded by many as the best player at Tannadice.

The photo of Doug Cowie in yesterday's Courier looks like he's at Tannadice in a United tracksuit, but he is remembered, rightly, as a huge Dundee luminary, instrumental in the development of many of the players who would win the Scottish League just after he left for Morton.

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Cowie was the last living Scotland international born during the 1920s, and the last Scotland international with more than a few caps born before 1939.

According to list on ScottishLeague.net the oldest surviving Scotland international is now Ian McMillan (born 1931), and earliest with 10+ caps is now Davie Wilson (born 1939). Infact there are now just 15 alive born before the war.

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14 hours ago, Eednud said:

Doug Cowie sadly passed away yesterday. Lucky to see him play a few times as his last season at Dens was my first season of going regularly. According to The Courier this is him in action against Hibs in 1953. As it looks a nice sunny day it’s possibly from the A Division game on 7th March with Dundee winning 2-0 in front of 30,000

 

BE527F1F-5B57-4C4E-A933-2E45F052629A.jpeg

Looks to be an awful lot of grass on the pitch for early March?

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2 hours ago, lionel wickson said:

Looks to be an awful lot of grass on the pitch for early March?

The only other 1953 game between them was in November. It’s probably more likely a game against Stirling Albion as that’s the style of jersey they wore back then. If so then it’s the first game of the 1953/54 season, a League Cup group game on 8th August. Dundee won 6-1 (Flavell 4, Steel 2) in front of 21,000. 

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This sort of stuff fascinates me, I could sit and read a thread like this all day.

I've always been intrigued by the 1909 Scottish Cup Final where there was a riot and a bonfire on the pitch!  Sectarianism wasn't really a thing at this point either.

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They had to reconstruct the stadium for the Scotland England game the next year.

Mob rule. A bonfire on the pitch. A two-hour riot, and the trophy withheld. Even by Old Firm standards, the 1909 Scottish Cup final was bedlam.

The sides couldn't be separated in 90 minutes and remained deadlocked following a replay, after which all hell broke loose at Hampden Park.

It was an unprecedented act of hooliganism in Scottish football that left scores of people injured.

Here, Richard McBrearty, the curator of the Scottish Football Museum at Hampden, recounts one of the most unsavoury episodes in the game's history.

Roots of Old Firm rivalry

The two clubs were starting to emerge as the giants we know them as today. The term 'Old Firm' actually comes from this early 20th century period as Rangers and Celtic were now box-office attractions. They were beginning to stand out because they had the biggest crowds, the best players and were on the cusp of dominating Scottish football.

They were also playing in finals on a regular basis so they were making money, particularly when facing each other. The "firm" relates to being like a business and the "old" clubs were rising again to make more money.

But the religious element of the rivalry hadn't developed to a great extent yet. So sectarianism wasn't a key factor on this occasion. Also, there was no segregation - the fans were mixed together. You would have a big number of supporters from other clubs because the cup final and Scotland v England were the two biggest events that came to Glasgow.

So it wasn't two sets of fans fighting each other and carnage ensuing - it was basically a mob fighting the authorities because they felt they were getting ripped off. It was mob rule.

Confusion turns to carnage

The first game was a close affair, with Rangers winning 2-1 late on and then an own goal forcing the replay. The second, with 60,000 fans packed inside Hampden, ended 1-1. It was the first time a replay had been drawn. And that's when confusion led to chaos.

The rules were simple - another replay was to be held. But for whatever reason, the crowd believed it was going to be played to a finish.

The players were unsure, too. Crucially, they hung back at the end of the 90 minutes. They were milling around and didn't know if they were to play on. It was only when the referee left the pitch that they eventually departed and the officials came out to remove the corner flags. That's when the crowd realised the game was finished.

This riot was completely unprecedented. And it really wasn't expected. There wasn't a large police presence at the game and they were simply overwhelmed.

Thousands of incensed fans surged on to the pitch quite quickly. There were scuffles, the police responded, and then it just kicked off. Carnage. And it lasted for two hours, which is quite incredible.

The police called for reinforcements. But even then they just didn't have the numbers to quell thousands of fans. They were basically fighting battles in lots of different areas on and around the pitch.

The crowd went from attacking the police to destroying elements of the stadium. They ripped up the pitch, tore down the goals and set them on fire. The fencing around the track and the pay boxes - old-fashioned turnstiles - were destroyed and burned as well.

The fire brigade turned up and got pelted with stones and bottles. They pulled out the hoses to try to douse the fires, but the rioters grabbed the hoses and the first one got thrown on a bonfire on the pitch. The rest were cut so they couldn't be used.

 

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1 hour ago, Scott Steiner said:

This sort of stuff fascinates me, I could sit and read a thread like this all day.

I've always been intrigued by the 1909 Scottish Cup Final where there was a riot and a bonfire on the pitch!  Sectarianism wasn't really a thing at this point either.

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Bad enough for 10 headlines...

                   1909041793.jpg
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Very interesting to read about the 1909 Hampden Riot. I find the society aspect of football as interesting as the results.  And good to get contemporary accounts.  Often we see things from days gone bye through our modern eyes.  From what I have read in other places Celtic and Rangers were quite friendly in early days. It was a few years after this event before Rangers adopted their "No Catholic" policy.  So no segregation in those days? When I started taking interest in Football in the late 50's /early 60's the Old Firm game was unique I think in having segregated crowds. The London media often commented on this , and I remember reading a report of a Canadian journalist visiting Glasgow who went to a New Year derby. He stated how the crowd had a "smile on half its face" when a goal was scored. My father started going to football in Glasgow late 20's, early 30's. Old Firm segregation had been established by then. He said that as far he was aware the segregation was not imposed by authorities but had been adopted by the fans themselves. I have never been able to find out if that was indeed the case, and if so why each set of fans chose the end of the ground they did. Doubt if there is anybody still around from those days but are there any Celtic or Rangers fans who have any knowledge of this?

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On 19/11/2021 at 21:45, Dundee Hibernian said:

Wonder what colours Thirds were wearing that day: guessing at sky blue and claret to contrast Hearts' white with maroon candy stipes, but can't see anything mentioned in match reports.

Thirds wore a gold shirt that day - and Jocky Robertson did indeed wear a Hearts shirt under his goalkeepers jersey

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the-results-of-the-final-draw-of-the-197

My earliest hazy football memories are of the hoo-ha around the 1974 World Cup. But one thing I never realised until recently was that Scotland were actually drawn in a five team group, with Spain and Yugoslavia having to play off several weeks after the draw was made.

I wonder if that is unprecedented? However it will definitely happen again next year as the draw for Qatar 22 takes place in April, with the inter-confederation play-offs not scheduled until June.

 

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2 hours ago, Lurkst said:

My earliest hazy football memories are of the hoo-ha around the 1974 World Cup. But one thing I never realised until recently was that Scotland were actually drawn in a five team group, with Spain and Yugoslavia having to play off several weeks after the draw was made.

I wonder if that is unprecedented? However it will definitely happen again next year as the draw for Qatar 22 takes place in April, with the inter-confederation play-offs not scheduled until June.

"Dead heat" in their qualifying group and played-off (in Frankfurt) in February.

Sweden & Austria similiar but played-off (in Gelsenkirchen) in November.


Mexico & USA played-off (in Rome) only 3 days before Italy 1934 began. Effectively part of finals tournament (which was knockout).


EDIT: Also must have happened in 1954... it had 4 groups of 4 but just 2 group ties (seeds v unseeds). Turkey beat Spain on 'lots' after 3 ties, and adopted their seeding.

EDIT AGAIN: Turkey had a most remarkable campaign in 1954... Their qualifying group only had 2 nations - Spain and themselves. They lost 4-1 in Madrid but somehow won 1-0 in Istanbul. As it was technically a group not a knockout tie, and as there were no tiebreakers apart from points, meant a 3rd tie playoff in Rome. They somehow drew 2-2 aet and qualified when a stadium workers lad drew lots. By now finals tournament in Switzerland had been drawn, and in Group C we find Hungary and Turkey (in lieu of Spain) seeded with West Germany and South Korea unseeded. Hungary thrashed both West Germany and South Korea. West Germany thrashed Turkey, who thrashed South Korea. Were no Hungary v Turkey or West Germany v South Korea matches. Again no tiebreakers so West Germany and Turkey on 2pts had to playoff for QFs place... Turkey thrashed again.

Edited by HibeeJibee
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2 hours ago, Lurkst said:

the-results-of-the-final-draw-of-the-197

My earliest hazy football memories are of the hoo-ha around the 1974 World Cup. But one thing I never realised until recently was that Scotland were actually drawn in a five team group, with Spain and Yugoslavia having to play off several weeks after the draw was made.

I wonder if that is unprecedented? However it will definitely happen again next year as the draw for Qatar 22 takes place in April, with the inter-confederation play-offs not scheduled until June.

 

I believe the Spain vs Yugoslavia play-off was shown live on the ITV network with Hugh Johns on mic duties...

 

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1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

"Dead heat" in their qualifying group and played-off (in Frankfurt) in February.

Sweden & Austria similiar but played-off (in Gelsenkirchen) in November.


Mexico & USA played-off (in Rome) only 3 days before Italy 1934 began. Effectively part of finals tournament (which was knockout).


EDIT: Also must have happened in 1954... it had 4 groups of 4 but just 2 group ties (seeds v unseeds). Turkey beat Spain on 'lots' after 3 ties, and adopted their seeding.

EDIT AGAIN: Turkey had a most remarkable campaign in 1954... Their qualifying group only had 2 nations - Spain and themselves. They lost 4-1 in Madrid but somehow won 1-0 in Istanbul. As it was technically a group not a knockout tie, and as there were no tiebreakers apart from points, meant a 3rd tie playoff in Rome. They somehow drew 2-2 aet and qualified when a stadium workers lad drew lots. By now finals tournament in Switzerland had been drawn, and in Group C we find Hungary and Turkey (in lieu of Spain) seeded with West Germany and South Korea unseeded. Hungary thrashed both West Germany and South Korea. West Germany thrashed Turkey, who thrashed South Korea. Were no Hungary v Turkey or West Germany v South Korea matches. Again no tiebreakers so West Germany and Turkey on 2pts had to playoff for QFs place... Turkey thrashed again.

Don’t forget Scotland had to play-off against Czechoslovakia in 1961 after both ended up with 3:wins out of 4 and goal average didn’t count. Scotland lost 0-4 in Bratislava but won 3-2 at Hampden. The play-off was in Brussels and the Czechs won 4-2 aet. Czechoslovakia lost to Brazil in the 1962 Final.

 

 

 

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