A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[Dundee Hibernian]

On 06/11/2021 at 22:19, tamthebam said:

You will note the notorious attempt 60 years ago by Rangers to boot out a team (Stranraer) that were older than them from the League plus others. 

Nothing changes but at least Berwick got their revenge a few years later.

The five still survive too: Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer live on while the club who tried to kill them died themselves in 2012.

It took over three years and a whole lot of court expense, until 7th November 1967, for the old Ibrox club's plan to be defeated, but even then the press reported a victory for Rangers: 

[HibeeJibee]

28 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

The five still survive too: Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer live on while the club who tried to kill them died themselves in 2012.

It took over three years and a whole lot of court expense, until 7th November 1967, for the old Ibrox club's plan to be defeated, but even then the press reported a victory for Rangers:

In practice another 8yrs passed until the leagues were rejigged from 18-19... and that was to 10-14-14, on establishment of Premier Division, not to 16-16.

[GNU_Linux]

How many reconstruction attempts have failed in the past? I'm only overly familiar with the half dozen or so colts attached attempts in past few seasons & Rangers attempts to cut numbers in the 60s.

[RedEd]

13 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

How many reconstruction attempts have failed in the past? I'm only overly familiar with the half dozen or so colts attached attempts in past few seasons & Rangers attempts to cut numbers in the 60s.

I have a fairly vague memory of an attempt in the early 80s to change the number of teams in each division, and it also proposed to add two reserve teams. Of course those reserve teams weren't Aberdeen and Dundee United.

Edited November 8, 2021 by RedEd

[The Holiday Song]

On 04/11/2021 at 14:27, Dundee Hibernian said:

It was certainly a British record fee, and I'd like to think it was a world record too!

George Anderson took him to Dens, usurping other more likely suitors  as he'd built up a friendship with Billy Steel during the war.

Steel had the imaginative nickname Budgem at Dens, while manager Anderson was known as Toffee Dod. Much better monikers than many of today's players who are more likely to have a  'zza' added to a variation of their proper name as a term of endearment, as in Dazza or Bazza.

80s/early 90s Robert de Niro wouldn't have needed much time in makeup to play him in a biopic.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

48 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

How many reconstruction attempts have failed in the past? I'm only overly familiar with the half dozen or so colts attached attempts in past few seasons & Rangers attempts to cut numbers in the 60s.

There was the 12-12 to 8-8-8 one which saw Stewart Milne cry real tears.

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, GNU_Linux said:

How many reconstruction attempts have failed in the past? I'm only overly familiar with the half dozen or so colts attached attempts in past few seasons & Rangers attempts to cut numbers in the 60s.

 

22 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

There was the 12-12 to 8-8-8 one which saw Stewart Milne cry real tears.

Dozens probably. It has been a perennial ever since the leagues began. Firstly from 1890s to 1920s it was about whether there should be 20-odd league games... leaving space for local cup-ties and supplementary leagues as clubs played in 2 or 3 leagues at a time... or 30-odd games which also allowed for more clubs; whether there should be further divisions; whether there should be automatic promotion-&-relegation.

Secondly from 1920s to 1970s it was about how big the divisions might be... 16, 18, 20... plus whether it could be a closed shop e.g. immediately after WWII there were calls for a Super League. You'll often find SFL AGM reports in 1950s and 1960s of clubs proposing to add 2 clubs, take away 2 clubs, whatever. Oddly enough nobody seemed to particularly push for 1-up-1-down or 3-up-3-down.

Thirdly since 1970s it's been about governance; how the new smaller divisions should be arranged - after initial calls to go back to 16/18/20 died down; promotion-&-relegation/playoffs. Yo-yoing between 10/12, but then gradually more outlandish... weren't there calls for an 8-team Superleague during 1980s?


Off the top of my head these *12* proposals have all made it to some kind of formal stage during last 20 years i.e. post-SPL, plus a couple openly 'floated'. I've probably forgotten some. More won't have made it that far e.g. Falkirk chairman + Steven Pressley holding a press conference calling for 18/20-team SPL. Every single example has failed:

Quote

14-10-10-10     proposed by Rangers in early 2000s     2x non-league clubs added     SPL would have split 6/8 after 2 rounds for 36/40 games

14-10-10-10 or 14-14-14    proposed by SPL leadership in 2010     OF B teams added     SPL would have split 7/7 after 2 rounds for 38 games

10-10-12|12     proposed by SFA and SPL leadership in 2011     OF B teams added     SFL2 & SFL3 regionalised     SPL Cup in Middle East in winter break (OF exempt)
10-12-16|16     revised proposal     B teams of all SPL clubs + 2x non-league clubs added     SPL2 would have played 44 games

16-10-16     proposed by SFL leadership in 2012      Premier and National divisions would have played 30 games
16-10-18     revised proposal     OF B teams would have been added

12-12-18     proposed by SPL leadership in 2013     (top 2 tiers would have split 8-8-8 after 2 rounds for 36 games)

12-14-16 or 16-??-??     floated by SPL leadership in 2015 to speed Rangers return

12-10-10-12     proposed by Rangers & Celtic/Competitions Working Group in 2018     OF B teams added
12-10-10-10-10     revised proposal     new SPFL3 mixture of B teams and non-league clubs

14-10-10-10     proposed by Budge etc. in 2020     2x non-league clubs added      Premiership would have split 6/8 after 2 rounds for 36/40 games
14-14-14     revised proposal

12-10-10-16     floated by Rangers & Celtic/Brechin

12-12-12-12     proposed by Rangers & Celtic/Innovation Group in 2021      OF B teams and 4x non-league clubs added over 3yrs

That's without considering who runs what - SFL, Super League, SPL, SPL2, SPFL; the pyramid; the League Cup format; the B Division, Summer, Spring, Drybrough, Texaco and Challenge cups; etc. etc.

Edited November 8, 2021 by HibeeJibee

[Charles Stiles]

7 hours ago, Piquet said:

And the First Choice players would play the majority of those games.

There was no "Squad Rotation" in those days. 

Tiredness hadn't been invented yet.

[Sergeant Wilson]

9 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

He also featured in John White's tribute game at Spurs after he was killed by lightening.

 

Must've been some player.

[Cairn Terrier]

Must've been some player.

Electric pace

[HibeeJibee]

19 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Must've been some player.

 

12 minutes ago, Cairn Terrier said:

Electric pace

Deadly strike on him.



Back on topic...

Spotted these in another forum... a pair of Spanish chocolate collector cards: St Mirren opening Barcelona's new Cortes stadium, and Barcelona v Notts County.

http://www.footballprogrammecentre.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=181969#181969



Some more ephemera from that tour:



    

Edited November 8, 2021 by HibeeJibee

[Theatom]

http://www.stmirren.info/id35.html
 

St Mirren’s won the Barcelona cup 

[ropy]

On 03/11/2021 at 21:53, Sergeant Wilson said:

Our colour telly got delivered on the opening day of the 1974 world cup. It was especially exciting as I got the old black and white for my room.

Everyone was at my Gran’s for Princess Anne’s wedding on her colour TV the previous November but when the World Cup came round my Dad headed to Radio Rentals and got us sorted with one.  I believe the black and white one did head up to ‘the boys’room’.

[Bogbrush1903]

On 06/11/2021 at 13:37, Dundee Hibernian said:

Encouraged by @Lurkst and his response, and following the 'anniversary theme', this was probably the 75th Anniversary of the Danish FA: I'm unsure if the '75' on the programme has been hidden, or if it's in a different colour which the photograph hasn't clearly picked up.

The match is Scandinavia (Norden) v the 'others' of Europe, which in that game included Denis Law and Jim Baxter in a strong lineup.

Sorry to go off topic but are Tannadice & Dens considered to be in the Stobswell area of Dundee? I can't find anything confirming that online.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Bogbrush1903

[Willie adie]

22 hours ago, Theatom said:

http://www.stmirren.info/id35.html
 

St Mirren’s won the Barcelona cup 

Is this not the cup that confirm st  mirren were the first UK club to win a European trophy,?

Edited November 9, 2021 by Willie adie

[kingjoey]

4 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

Sorry to go off topic but are Tannadice & Dens considered to be in the Stobswell area of Dundee? I can't find anything confirming that online.

No, not in the Stobswell area, but pretty close. I stayed in a flat in McGill Street for a year off Albert Street and I would consider that to be Stobswell. I walked past The Stobswell Bar every time I went to Dens or Tannadice.

[Bogbrush1903]

39 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

No, not in the Stobswell area, but pretty close. I stayed in a flat in McGill Street for a year off Albert Street and I would consider that to be Stobswell. I walked past The Stobswell Bar every time I went to Dens or Tannadice.

So do they lie in any specific area of Dundee? It seems like they don't when I view the location of the stadiums in Google Maps

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Bogbrush1903

[Caledonian1]

On 20/10/2021 at 16:23, craigkillie said:

Curiously, both Dundee United and Rangers played in Valetta, Malta on the same day back in September 1983. Dundee United beat Hamrun Spartans 3-0 in the European Cup and Rangers beat Valetta 8-0 in the Cup Winners' Cup.

Even more amazingly than that, both were played in the same stadium as a double header.

Thats just amazing cant recall this at all - the season United got to the semi too.

Not much of a bufffer between games.  Indeed rarely does a 3pm kick off finish by 4.45pm these days - appreciate that half time was shorter and refs used to add an arbitrary minute or two for injury time back then.  No chance of a warm up on the pitch.

I wonder how many United and Rangers fans went to the game(s)  Any trouble?

[kingjoey]

1 hour ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

So do they lie in any specific area of Dundee? It seems like they don't when I view the location of the stadiums in Google Maps

 

I would say not, but I only lived in Dundee for 15 years, so maybe a lifelong resident may know differently.

[Eednud]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

No, not in the Stobswell area, but pretty close. I stayed in a flat in McGill Street for a year off Albert Street and I would consider that to be Stobswell. I walked past The Stobswell Bar every time I went to Dens or Tannadice.

You should have gone along Balmore Street and into the Balmore Bar, far better pint than Andy Laing’s (Stobbie Bar) in my day. Growing up in Dundee there were no specific names for areas near the grounds. The area between Sandeman Street up to Clepington Road was referred to as Fleming Gardens, probably because the two main streets were/are Fleming Gardens North and Fleming Gardens South. The other side of Provost Road could be considered part of the Coldside area but been away for more than a wee while.