A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[Flybhoy]

Roy Aitken and Gordon Strachan exchange a few pleasantries just before the Celtic captain is sent off in the 1984 Scottish Cup Final. 

[8MileBU]

Roy Aitken and Gordon Strachan exchange a few pleasantries just before the Celtic captain is sent off in the 1984 Scottish Cup Final. 

“Get up ya ugly wee b*****d!”

“f**k off ya big ugly b*****d!”

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Flybhoy said:

What is even more depressing about that World Cup, the second top goalscorer in England, Frank McAvennie got approximately 20 minutes at the tournament,  Andy Gray who had been on fire for Everton with 30 goals didn't make the squad, neither did the four top goalscorers in Scotland, Ally McCoist, John Robertson, Brian McClair and M* J*hnst*n, an embarrassment of riches we simply don't have now

 

Andy Gray's fantastic season - which didn't yield 30 goals anyway - was the previous one.   Lineker had taken over at Everton by 1986, with a season good enough to take him to Barcelona.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, Moses Supposes said:

The manager was a clown. He was actually handed gift-wrapped a set of highly talented and high-achieving players, but he didn't have a clue how to select a squad never mind a team. Among his many baffling decisions was leaving the prolific scoring Andy Gray out of the squad and taking Joe Harper and Derek Johnstone instead, choosing Gordon McQueen who was recovering from a broken leg and actually  boarded the plane for Argentina on crutches and persisting with Masson and Rioch when it had been obvious for a some time they had lost form.  

Coupled with his utterly baffling selections was a grossly inflated sense of both his and the team's actual abilities. He spent most of his time talking nonsense to journalists and making increasingly ridiculous statements about Scotland's prospects of success in the finals and beyond! 

Gordon McQueen did not have a broken leg.  He'd twisted a knee against Wales and had a chance of making it if we stayed in the tournament.  Taking him made lots of sense.

Derek Johnstone had just had a forty goal season in winning the treble.

McLeod's sense of the team's abilities was not grossly inflated.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Monkey Tennis

[Eednud]

2 hours ago, lionel wickson said:

Didn't we also travel with a "squad" of thirteen, two of which were goalkeepers, to cover the three group matches?

This has a bit about the squad.

http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.uk/2010/06/scotland-in-1954-dismal-debut.html

[AyrshireTon]

News report from a game which took placed on 31/12/07 - apologies that there are no pictures or artist's sketches. Found whilst looking for Morton stuff.

[Moses Supposes]

10 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Gordon McQueen did not have a broken leg.  He'd twisted a knee against Wales and had a chance of making it if we stayed in the tournament.  Taking him made lots of sense.

Derek Johnstone had just had a forty goal season in winning the treble.

McLeod's sense of the team's abilities was not grossly inflated.

Somebody else said that about McQueen. We can bandy details -- for instance, IMHO Johnstone was never an international class player (even McLeod seemed to recognise this giving Harper some pitch time in Argentina and big Derek not a minute) -- but was is beyond question is McLeod was a clown and the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

McLeod was talking about winning and retaining trophy at one stage. If that is not grossly inflated I don't know what is. 

[kennie makevin]

18 hours ago, Flybhoy said:

Stevie Chalmers in action against Hibs in the 1969 League Cup final, unsure of the Hibernian player. 

This is technically action from the 1968 League Cup Final which, due to a fire in the Hampden stand, was delayed until April 1969.  The 1969 League Cup Final took place that October with Celtic beating St.Johnstone 1-0. 

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

Straight from Ally himself...

[paulbrucerick]

14 hours ago, Flybhoy said:

This was a decent wee tune, if a bit sombre, two of my mates are in the video too.

 

 

Pretty sure the aforementioned Grigor is in that video too. He still runs trips as well, which is surprising considering the amount of times I've heard horror stories.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, Moses Supposes said:

Somebody else said that about McQueen. We can bandy details -- for instance, IMHO Johnstone was never an international class player (even McLeod seemed to recognise this giving Harper some pitch time in Argentina and big Derek not a minute) -- but was is beyond question is McLeod was a clown and the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

McLeod was talking about winning and retaining trophy at one stage. If that is not grossly inflated I don't know what is. 

Johnstone had scored twice in the home internationals just before departure.

Citing his omission at the hands of someone you deem a clown, is unconvincing as evidence of him not being up to it.  

McLeod had joked about us retaining the cup after winning it.  It was a good line.  More realistically he said he was hopeful of a medal.  That didn't represent a gross inflation of anything.  Our squad had lots of top players.

I think his failure to look at the opposition properly was pretty criminal.  I also think that lots of off field aspects were poorly handled, including bonuses and accommodation.

McLeod harnessed something though and dismissing him as a clown is essentially unfair.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Monkey Tennis

[billyg]

1 hour ago, kennie makevin said:

This is technically action from the 1968 League Cup Final which, due to a fire in the Hampden stand, was delayed until April 1969.  The 1969 League Cup Final took place that October with Celtic beating St.Johnstone 1-0. 

It's former Morton CH , the Dane John Madsen !

[steelman1991]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:08, Northboy said:

Scotland vs Northern Ireland at Hampden in late 60s, crowd just over 7000. Bring back the Home Internationals!

Thanks for posting this - my first International and wanted to see George Best. Can't even remember if he played that night, but think the game may have finished 1-0 to NI (Derek Dougan scoring the winner).  Abiding memory of the night was how few there were in the East Terracing and I think youv'e got a picture that captured the entire number lol.

[Moses Supposes]

3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Johnston had scored twice in the home internationals just before departure.

Citing his omission at the hands of someone you deem a clown, is unconvincing as evidence of him not being up to it.  

McLeod had joked about us retaining the cup after winning it.  It was a good line.  More realistically he said he was hopeful of a medal.  That didn't represent a gross inflation of anything.  Our squad had lots of top players.

I think his failure to look at the opposition properly was pretty criminal.  I also think that lots of off field aspects were poorly handled, including bonuses and accommodation.

McLeod harnessed something though and dismissing him as a clown is essentially unfair.

Those two goals, against N Ireland and Wales, were Johnstone's only goals for Scotland in 14 games. 

I don't understand your second sentence. My actual point is I don't think Johnstone should have been selected ahead of Andy Gray who had been pulling up trees in England for several seasons -- I would have had no problem with him being omitted. Gray was sharper, quicker and more mobile than Johnstone. MacLeod picked the wrong man.

MacLeod said on more than one occasion he expected Scotland to win "at least a medal". In other words no lower than third place and probably better. He was not joking when he said it. The line about retaining it may have been said tongue in cheek but it was redolent of the general wha's like us nonsense that was inflamed by MacLeod and his friends in the Scottish media at the time. Can you imagine Jock Stein, Jim McLean or Alex Ferguson talking about medals? 

I agree, Scotland had lots of top players. They under-performed. They were badly prepared, undercooked, wrongly set up, shambolic in the first two games and ill-disciplined . In other words, they were badly managed. I think clown is fair.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

6 minutes ago, Moses Supposes said:

Those two goals, against N Ireland and Wales, were Johnstone's only goals for Scotland in 14 games. 

I don't understand your second sentence. My actual point is I don't think Johnstone should have been selected ahead of Andy Gray who had been pulling up trees in England for several seasons -- I would have had no problem with him being omitted. Gray was sharper, quicker and more mobile than Johnstone. MacLeod picked the wrong man.

MacLeod said on more than one occasion he expected Scotland to win "at least a medal". In other words no lower than third place and probably better. He was not joking when he said it. The line about retaining it may have been said tongue in cheek but it was redolent of the general wha's like us nonsense that was inflamed by MacLeod and his friends in the Scottish media at the time. Can you imagine Jock Stein, Jim McLean or Alex Ferguson talking about medals? 

I agree, Scotland had lots of top players. They under-performed. They were badly prepared, undercooked, wrongly set up, shambolic in the first two games and ill-disciplined . In other words, they were badly managed. I think clown is fair.

Jock Stein had big shoes to fill.

[Monkey Tennis]

14 minutes ago, Moses Supposes said:

Those two goals, against N Ireland and Wales, were Johnstone's only goals for Scotland in 14 games. 

I don't understand your second sentence. My actual point is I don't think Johnstone should have been selected ahead of Andy Gray who had been pulling up trees in England for several seasons -- I would have had no problem with him being omitted. Gray was sharper, quicker and more mobile than Johnstone. MacLeod picked the wrong man.

MacLeod said on more than one occasion he expected Scotland to win "at least a medal". In other words no lower than third place and probably better. He was not joking when he said it. The line about retaining it may have been said tongue in cheek but it was redolent of the general wha's like us nonsense that was inflamed by MacLeod and his friends in the Scottish media at the time. Can you imagine Jock Stein, Jim McLean or Alex Ferguson talking about medals? 

I agree, Scotland had lots of top players. They under-performed. They were badly prepared, undercooked, wrongly set up, shambolic in the first two games and ill-disciplined . In other words, they were badly managed. I think clown is fair.

And yet, neither Stein or Ferguson did any better when they got their chance.

[Moses Supposes]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

And yet, neither Stein or Ferguson did any better when they got their chance.

And they did it without making a complete c**t of themselves -- just goes to show what's possible when you're not a clown.

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, Moses Supposes said:

And they did it without making a complete c**t of themselves -- just goes to show what's possible when you're not a clown.

You're being daft now.

You're implying that McLeod's upbeat persona cost us; yet he secured three times as many points (four in new money) as the more pragmatic Ferguson, while in each game facing eleven men.

You're bringing anti-McLeod prejudice to the discussion, and not allowing evidence to dent it.

[Moses Supposes]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You're being daft now.

You're implying that McLeod's upbeat persona cost us; yet he secured three times as many points (four in new money) as the more pragmatic Ferguson, while in each game facing eleven men.

You're bringing anti-McLeod prejudice to the discussion, and not allowing evidence to dent it.

I'm not really. I was just trying to lighten it up. 

I guess it could be argued all three of them underachieved with decent squads. Ferguson was unlucky. Stein very unlucky.  MacLeod was just inept. The outcomes of football games are often determined by fine margins. Ferguson's team got one point from three games but never once did his teams plunge to the depths of performance that MacLeod's outfits did against Peru and Iran. But you knew that. 

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, Moses Supposes said:

I'm not really. I was just trying to lighten it up. 

I guess it could be argued all three of them underachieved with decent squads. Ferguson was unlucky. Stein very unlucky.  MacLeod was just inept. The outcomes of football games are often determined by fine margins. Ferguson's team got one point from three games but never once did his teams plunge to the depths of performance that MacLeod's outfits did against Peru and Iran. But you knew that. 

Yes, I did know that, but there's something contradictory in what you're saying.  

McLeod is to be pilloried for overseeing such witless performances from such a strong squad, yet he's somehow also to be pilloried for pointing to said strength of squad.