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A Photographic History Of Scottish Football


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18 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

The photo was Brockville, all the cars parked at the demolished Aitken's Brewery site.

I only had the shape of the roof on the main stand to go by as I don't know Falkirk, past or present, well at all. Would have loved to have taken in a game or two at the old place, the new stadium is not bad but won't have the character that Brockville had. 

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13 minutes ago, Andy_K_97 said:

I only had the shape of the roof on the main stand to go by as I don't know Falkirk, past or present, well at all. Would have loved to have taken in a game or two at the old place, the new stadium is not bad but won't have the character that Brockville had. 

Best atmosphere I ever saw there was the Scottish Junior Cup semi final in 1981 between Arthurlie and Bo'ness which Arthurlie won 3 - 2 after being behind twice.   Bo'ness fans were the worst I have ever seen at any game - mental. 

Brilliant game and even better night as the pubs in Barrhead had late licences. 

 

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On 07/12/2018 at 22:26, kingjoey said:

I seem to remember that Bayview was right on the coast. Where’s Dundee Hibernian?

Bayview as the name suggests was overlooking the Firth of Forth but was much farther back from the sea than the current ground. First timevI was in it was around 1970 for a Scottish Cup QF between East Ffe and Dundee. Over 15,000 packed into the old ground to see a 1-0 win for the Dee

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After Hillsborough and the new stadium regulations, how long did clubs have to get their stadiums up to the new standards? Did any Scottish clubs struggle by spending money on seats/new stands to the detriment of the team? 

My first Scottish game was 95 so I have been to Brockville, Kilbowie, Methil and a few other stadiums that aren’t here any more, but most of the bigger stadiums were all seater by that point. 

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After Hillsborough and the new stadium regulations, how long did clubs have to get their stadiums up to the new standards? Did any Scottish clubs struggle by spending money on seats/new stands to the detriment of the team? 
My first Scottish game was 95 so I have been to Brockville, Kilbowie, Methil and a few other stadiums that aren’t here any more, but most of the bigger stadiums were all seater by that point. 
I'm pretty sure the Taylor Report only applied to the English clubs. Pittodrie and Kilbowie were already all-seated (albeit using bench seats/bleachers) and Ibrox was getting modernised by Murray with his Steel company using it as a prestige project and to generate more income but there was no need to go all-seated until the SPL brought in their own 10,000 seat rule. Celtic and Rangers in particular would have needed to have made changes for European games but not til by the turn of the century or thereabouts. St Johnstone built the first new ground of the post Hillsborough era but they could have had terracing had they wanted to until the advent of the SPL.
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5 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:
15 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:
After Hillsborough and the new stadium regulations, how long did clubs have to get their stadiums up to the new standards? Did any Scottish clubs struggle by spending money on seats/new stands to the detriment of the team? 
My first Scottish game was 95 so I have been to Brockville, Kilbowie, Methil and a few other stadiums that aren’t here any more, but most of the bigger stadiums were all seater by that point. 

I'm pretty sure the Taylor Report only applied to the English clubs. Pittodrie and Kilbowie were already all-seated (albeit using bench seats/bleachers) and Ibrox was getting modernised by Murray with his Steel company using it as a prestige project and to generate more income but there was no need to go all-seated until the SPL brought in their own 10,000 seat rule. Celtic and Rangers in particular would have needed to have made changes for European games but not til by the turn of the century or thereabouts. St Johnstone built the first new ground of the post Hillsborough era but they could have had terracing had they wanted to until the advent of the SPL.

Cheers. Makes the SPL’s 10,000 seat rule look even more ridiculous then. Was it Falkirk who didn’t get promoted due to that criteria? I remember St. Mirren threw a stand up quite quickly in 99/00 to adhere to that rule. 

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8 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:
18 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:
After Hillsborough and the new stadium regulations, how long did clubs have to get their stadiums up to the new standards? Did any Scottish clubs struggle by spending money on seats/new stands to the detriment of the team? 
My first Scottish game was 95 so I have been to Brockville, Kilbowie, Methil and a few other stadiums that aren’t here any more, but most of the bigger stadiums were all seater by that point. 

I'm pretty sure the Taylor Report only applied to the English clubs. Pittodrie and Kilbowie were already all-seated (albeit using bench seats/bleachers) and Ibrox was getting modernised by Murray with his Steel company using it as a prestige project and to generate more income but there was no need to go all-seated until the SPL brought in their own 10,000 seat rule. Celtic and Rangers in particular would have needed to have made changes for European games but not til by the turn of the century or thereabouts. St Johnstone built the first new ground of the post Hillsborough era but they could have had terracing had they wanted to until the advent of the SPL.

The Taylor Report applied to top division Scottish clubs as well. They had to be all-seated by 1994/95 with their standing capacity reduced by 20% per season from 1989/90 to enforce this. Clubs who were promoted to the top division in this time got an extended period to comply, although I can't remember the exact details of this.

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7 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

After Hillsborough and the new stadium regulations, how long did clubs have to get their stadiums up to the new standards? Did any Scottish clubs struggle by spending money on seats/new stands to the detriment of the team? 

My first Scottish game was 95 so I have been to Brockville, Kilbowie, Methil and a few other stadiums that aren’t here any more, but most of the bigger stadiums were all seater by that point. 

A number of Scottish clubs put limited wooden benches in the seasons after the Ibrox disaster. Most obvious was the Centenary Stand at Ibrox, the Shed/Cave at Easter Rd, the Beach End at Aberdeen, Clydebank. As the season went by others joined in, Hearts had limited wooden benches fitted pre Hillsborough. 

Clydebank never charged extra for the wooden benches but Rangers and Hibs ripped the pish by charging an extra 50p and calling it a stand seat which obviously it wasn’t.

Edited by Glenconner
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9 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:
9 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:
After Hillsborough and the new stadium regulations, how long did clubs have to get their stadiums up to the new standards? Did any Scottish clubs struggle by spending money on seats/new stands to the detriment of the team? 
My first Scottish game was 95 so I have been to Brockville, Kilbowie, Methil and a few other stadiums that aren’t here any more, but most of the bigger stadiums were all seater by that point.

I'm pretty sure the Taylor Report only applied to the English clubs. Pittodrie and Kilbowie were already all-seated (albeit using bench seats/bleachers) and Ibrox was getting modernised by Murray with his Steel company using it as a prestige project and to generate more income but there was no need to go all-seated until the SPL brought in their own 10,000 seat rule. 

The development of Ibrox was more to do with Willie Waddell in reaction to the 1971 disaster. The three new stands were modelled on Dortmund and completed between 1978 and 1981, with only 8000 standing in the East and West enclosures below the main stand.

Rangers had won the treble in 1978 but were weakened by spending on the stadium until Davie Holmes brought in Souness in 1986. The 3 new stands cost about £10m rather than the projected £6m.

Murray only bought Rangers in 1988. However Murray was responsible for the £20m club deck and filling in the corners, as well as lowering the pitch.

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10 hours ago, ScottyDee1893 said:

Bayview as the name suggests was overlooking the Firth of Forth but was much farther back from the sea than the current ground. First timevI was in it was around 1970 for a Scottish Cup QF between East Ffe and Dundee. Over 15,000 packed into the old ground to see a 1-0 win for the Dee

Aye, it was roughly where the pin is here - 

 

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9 hours ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

The Taylor Report applied to top division Scottish clubs as well. They had to be all-seated by 1994/95 with their standing capacity reduced by 20% per season from 1989/90 to enforce this. Clubs who were promoted to the top division in this time got an extended period to comply, although I can't remember the exact details of this.

The Football Spectators Act, the legislation that followed the Taylor Report, did not apply in Scotland.  The SPL made all-seated stadiums a condition of membership of the league independently of any legislation. 

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11 hours ago, ScottyDee1893 said:

Bayview as the name suggests was overlooking the Firth of Forth but was much farther back from the sea than the current ground. First timevI was in it was around 1970 for a Scottish Cup QF between East Ffe and Dundee. Over 15,000 packed into the old ground to see a 1-0 win for the Dee

I was at that game, think our goal was scored by Billy Semple.

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The Taylor report included a series of recommendations many of which came down to Taylor's personal opinions and preference. He states "It is obvious that sitting for the duration of the match is more comfortable than standing". Loads would disagree with that.

Even then it concluded that standing was not unsafe but recommended that grounds be all seater, claiming to have some stats that showed 'two thirds support' for this. Given how many folk stand at games even in all seater grounds I doubt the validity.

The Football Spectators Act was pushed through in 1989 and said all football grounds should be all seated. This was nothing to do with 'safety' given that the Taylor Report said standing wasn't unsafe but all to do with the ongoing assault on the working class from the Tories. It was relaxed in 1992 for the tiers below Tier 2 in England. The law never covered Scotland. It has never been a legal requirement in Scotland to have all seater grounds for football games.

The Taylor Report should have been laughed out of the conversation. It was a massive overraction in the most part to Hillsborough. No doubt some changes were needed, like limiting capacity, removing fences and ensuring there are sufficient exits for supporters. But the Taylor Report went way over the top and football jumped on it as they knew they could rip fans off for it.

The Taylor Report said some sensible things, but also a load of fucking garbage. The all seater recommendation was the worst, but other suggestions showed how little he understood football, such as;

- family sections were fans of both clubs sit together 

- painting all concourses and gangways yellow

- have stewards give a pre-match demonstration of where the exits are, similar to what air stewards do before a plane takes off 

- asks that clubs consider having moats in front of stands to stop fans getting on to the pitch

- fans must sign up to be part of a scheme to be able to get a ticket to an away game

 

The report was mostly a bag of shite. The government played on the public emotion over Hillsborough to try and attack the working class and the footballing authorities were on board as they saw the profits they could make. 

But it was never law in Scotland, and the 'profits' would never materialise due to our fan distribution, not to mention the ludicrous insistence of the 10k seater rule. Where did they pull that bullshit figure from? It was never feasible for the vast majority of clubs.

 

Ultimately we have all seater grounds because one guy who wrote a report prefers to sit.

This is why the term 'safe standing' really annoys me, and why I'm amazed so many folk don't question it. It's a nonsense term, because the report literally states that standing isn't unsafe. 'Safe standing' is another con, no doubt brought to you by the same folk who pushed for all seater stadia. 

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1 hour ago, Moses Supposes said:

The Football Spectators Act, the legislation that followed the Taylor Report, did not apply in Scotland.  The SPL made all-seated stadiums a condition of membership of the league independently of any legislation. 

The SPL didn't exist until 1998. All-seater stadia were compulsory in the top division from 1994.

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5 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

The SPL didn't exist until 1998. All-seater stadia were compulsory in the top division from 1994.

Scotland wasn't bound by law to do so. We played a couple of seasons in the top division with terracing and only changed the stadium because of the new SPL and it's daft all seater rule.

Pretty sure other clubs used terracing in the top division before 1998 as well. Did Hibs not still have a stand that was terracing in 94? Falkirk and Partick still had terracing until they were relegated the following season. Raith had terracing until the end of 95/96. Pretty sure Motherwell played all of 94 with some terracing as well.

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