glensmad Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 If what I've heard is correct, the proposed names for the new league set-up in the West Region are to be "Premiership", "Championship", "League One" and "League Two", copying the current SPFL names. While I like the new league set-up and supported its implementation before the AGM vote last summer, this part of the proposal was the only thing I had reservations about, and it's not too late to change it if the general junior football public are in agreement. The SPFL copied the names from England, without logically thinking about why the English chose these names. When the English Premier League (originally called "Premiership") was set-up, it was a breakaway set-up from the English Football League. Consequently that left the 2nd tier of English football as the top league under the auspices of the EFL, and the old trophy that was used for the old English Division One was now to be used for that 2nd tier as the top league in the EFL set-up, hence it being called the "Championship". When the SPFL was set up, the top league (the "Scottish Premiership") was not a breakaway league. The 2nd tier was under the same jurisdiction as the Scottish Premiership via the SPFL, so to call it the "Scottish Championship" was just silly. It smacked of a lack of imagination and a lack of understanding as to the reason why England originally chose those names. Then we move on to the "League One" and "League Two" nonsense. Having the 3rd tier of any set-up being called League One is just plain daft, and similarly the 4th tier as League Two. It's just confusing to people who are new to the game or people from foreign countries. Have a look at the other top professional leagues across Europe (excluding England), and there is no need for them to over-complicate things. France has Ligue 1 & Ligue 2 as their top leagues, Spain has La Liga and Segunda (meaning "second"), Germany has the Budesliga and 2. Bundesliga, Italy has Serie A & Serie B. Simple, straightforward and easy to understand for everybody who is unfamiliar with the set-up. We shouldn't be looking to copy the SPFL nonsense as we move into the new West Region set-up. A simple "Premier League", "1st Division", "2nd Division" and "3rd Division" would be fine, or even 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th to make it even more simple. Your thoughts ? (And before anybody says "speak to your delegate" ( © Glesgaboy), I have very deliberately raised it on here as a debating point, as I accept that I may be alone here and that there may well be a level of opinion different to mine.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshed Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 If what I've heard is correct, the proposed names for the new league set-up in the West Region are to be "Premiership", "Championship", "League One" and "League Two", copying the current SPFL names. While I like the new league set-up and supported its implementation before the AGM vote last summer, this part of the proposal was the only thing I had reservations about, and it's not too late to change it if the general junior football public are in agreement. The SPFL copied the names from England, without logically thinking about why the English chose these names. When the English Premier League (originally called "Premiership") was set-up, it was a breakaway set-up from the English Football League. Consequently that left the 2nd tier of English football as the top league under the auspices of the EFL, and the old trophy that was used for the old English Division One was now to be used for that 2nd tier as the top league in the EFL set-up, hence it being called the "Championship". When the SPFL was set up, the top league (the "Scottish Premiership") was not a breakaway league. The 2nd tier was under the same jurisdiction as the Scottish Premiership via the SPFL, so to call it the "Scottish Championship" was just silly. It smacked of a lack of imagination and a lack of understanding as to the reason why England originally chose those names. Then we move on to the "League One" and "League Two" nonsense. Having the 3rd tier of any set-up being called League One is just plain daft, and similarly the 4th tier as League Two. It's just confusing to people who are new to the game or people from foreign countries. Have a look at the other top professional leagues across Europe (excluding England), and there is no need for them to over-complicate things. France has Ligue 1 & Ligue 2 as their top leagues, Spain has La Liga and Segunda (meaning "second"), Germany has the Budesliga and 2. Bundesliga, Italy has Serie A & Serie B. Simple, straightforward and easy to understand for everybody who is unfamiliar with the set-up. We shouldn't be looking to copy the SPFL nonsense as we move into the new West Region set-up. A simple "Premier League", "1st Division", "2nd Division" and "3rd Division" would be fine, or even 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th to make it even more simple. Your thoughts ? (And before anybody says "speak to your delegate" ( [emoji767] Glesgaboy), I have very deliberately raised it on here as a debating point, as I accept that I may be alone here and that there may well be a level of opinion different to mine.) Perfectly happy with premiership / championship / league one / league two etc , why would it be confusing ? It's used well all across Britain where we are based and isn't confusing at all , as for France / Germany etc that you quote we arent based abroad so the new setup gets the thumbs up from Me and isn't confusing in the slightest , by all means get rid of the daft junior tag as that's where the confusing issue really is ; any marketable product that needs explained is flawed - therefore the antiquated junior tag is flawed and needs to go - outwith that the new league names is perfect for me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I agree. On the plus side it better than the East naming system of - Superleague - Premier Leage, then North & South Division below that. A Super league above a Premier league and for some reason the ones below being divisions not leagues. But back to the West. Ideal would be 1st - 2nd - 3rd - 4th, but Premier the 1 - 2 - 3 would be ok. League two being the 4th league down is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, theshed said: Perfectly happy with premiership / championship / league one / league two etc , why would it be confusing ? It's used well all across Britain where we are based and isn't confusing at all , as for France / Germany etc that you quote we arent based abroad so the new setup gets the thumbs up from Me and isn't confusing in the slightest , by all means get rid of the daft junior tag as that's where the confusing issue really is ; any marketable product that needs explained is flawed - therefore the antiquated junior tag is flawed and needs to go - outwith that the new league names is perfect for me . Fair enough, as I said in my original post I'm happy to accept that people might disagree with me, hence me raising it on here to guage the opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Pointless thread, pointless conversation. AGM decisions can NOT be overturned until at least 2years later, as per the constitution. If there was a desire from any clubs to have different names it would have required an amendment to be submitted at LAST year's AGM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just now, archieb said: Pointless thread, pointless conversation. AGM decisions can NOT be overturned until at least 2years later, as per the constitution. If there was a desire from any clubs to have different names it would have required an amendment to be submitted at LAST year's AGM! Archie, I normally agree with you, but on this occasion I don't. It's not a "pointless" thread, as these names can be changed at some point if the majority vote for it. Maybe not this summer, but there's nothing wrong with opinion being guaged. As for the constitution, we all know how well that has been adhered to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshed Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Fair enough, as I said in my original post I'm happy to accept that people might disagree with me, hence me raising it on here to guage the opinions. I think if anything it might sound a bit more trendy to young kids in Scotland as they can become brainwashed with the names premiership / championship etc from down south , same product of course but it probably sounds more appetising for the youngsters , as said ditch the last of the summer wine junior tag and it would be even further progress, junior implies inferiority/ lesser than , we are lesser than nobody and let's start acting like it [emoji2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshed Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Pointless thread, pointless conversation. AGM decisions can NOT be overturned until at least 2years later, as per the constitution. If there was a desire from any clubs to have different names it would have required an amendment to be submitted at LAST year's AGM! If pointless scroll past and don't comment then quite simple really ...... a bit like yourself...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, archieb said: Pointless thread, pointless conversation. AGM decisions can NOT be overturned until at least 2years later, as per the constitution. If there was a desire from any clubs to have different names it would have required an amendment to be submitted at LAST year's AGM! The names of the new leagues were NOT decided at an AGM. Presumably it was done at a management committee meeting amd if so the next general meeting with delegates present can voice their concern and put up alternative suggestions. Somehow I don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, garrellburn said: The names of the new leagues were NOT decided at an AGM. Presumably it was done at a management committee meeting amd if so the next general meeting with delegates present can voice their concern and put up alternative suggestions. Somehow I don't see it happening. I think Archie may be right on this one, if a bit OTT in the way he has expressed it. I think the proposal for the new leagues did indeed include names for the leagues, so if the proposal was accepted then the names were accepted automatically as part of the proposal and have become part of the constitution. However, as I mentioned earlier, the constitution hasn't been strictly adhered to this season in other respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Sorry if I've ruffled a few feathers, I was only trying to be realistic and emphasise the futility of expecting any possibility of alteration to this nomenclature. I'll expand. Garrelburn is 100% wrong and Glensmad is correct regarding where these names appeared from. The eventual AGM reconstruction motion was developed out of proposals put forward by 3 different clubs and it initially retained the existing names for the top two tiers (Premier Division, Division 1) and called the next two tiers Division 2 and Division 3. The idea to change it to Premiership/Championship/League1/League2 DID come from a senior member of the Management Committee (who was involved in the discussions which produced the final AGM motion) and it WAS explicitly included in the wording of the motion, so it SHOULD be part of the West Region Constitution and Rules. Inexplicably, the version of the rules available to download from the SJFA web pages has NOT been changed in accordance with the motion voted for (something I WOULD expect to be questioned at this month's GM). As the post-reconstruction league names came from among the blazers, it's pretty unlikely they would seek any change and, as none of the clubs expressed through their delegates any dissatisfaction with the names, surely a move for change from that direction is unlikely too. Personally, I'm not a fan of anything other than Divs 1,2.3,4 but I can see some advantages to the Prem, Champ, L1, L2 pattern adopted: 1 It mirrors the names used in the SPFL and EFL so has familiarity with the public. 2 It avoids the Super/Premier confusion created in the East (I can never remember which way round they are!) 3 It removes the nonsense of the West Region having two Division Ones (Super League and Central) 4 As the new "League1" is largely created out of Central League Div1 and "League2" from Central Div2, it avoided any objection clubs in those divisions might have had to being apparently relegated en masse by a division (although in name only) to Divs 2 and 3 respectively. To go back to the main point in my previous post: There's no mechanism for changing these names until the 2019 AGM at the earliest so, like it or not, they're surely going to be in place for the whole of season 2018-19. By the end of that we'll be used to them, or maybe other, even more radical changes may be upon us by then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Trying to appear current but it will look dated when the next senior rebranding comes about. Doesn't really matter that much ultimately. It's just a cosmetic aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darvel legend Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 i quite like premiership , championship , league 1 and league 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 How about League One, Pollok plus the Ayrshire Militia. League Two, anybody else with half a committee and 30 supporters. League Three, maybe one day. League Four, the worst team in Ayrshire and the rest of the Central League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-german exile Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Top LeagueNearly Top LeagueNearly Bottom LeagueBottom League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRICEY Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Would love for it to be simply 1,2,3,4 but sadly never thought it would happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNauld Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I agree with you Peter, 1st second 3rd and 4th works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 The SFA/SFL decision to simply copy the English set up in terms of naming was a bad joke and summed up their inability to come up with anything half original. It is what it is though, and the juniors copying the senior naming might not be so bad in terms of it meaning they don't have to explain what the divisions actually represent. Should make it easier for them to sort out sponsorship and the like...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just call them John, Paul, Ringo and George and stop all the fannying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lang Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just call them John, Paul, Ringo and George and stop all the fannying about. John, Paul, George and Ringo! Looking forward to 3pts tomorrow[emoji4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.