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I caught up with the first episode of "Spotlight on the troubles: A secret history" and I'd recommend it.

Amidst repression, imperialism and poverty, there were some seriously bad guys back then.

Des Long cut a cold and cynical figure and was matched by the hot and damaging Paisley rhetoric.

(haha -  there's a funny h in rhetoric)

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31 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Surprised none of the residents of Ni havent brought this up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-49904286?__twitter_impression=true

  Because we knew we could rely on one of the usual suspects to bring it up. Surprised it took so long, notwithstanding it was only announced this morning.

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2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Unrelated to the above, how come protestant socialists or left leaning people have never had a leftish loyalist party to vote for? 

Not sure that's true. The Northern Ireland Labour Party was left leaning and pro Union. It was often able to beat the UUP FPTP in working class parts of Belfast during the Stormont era. Since 1972 the DUP has been left leaning in economic terms as well as being socially conservative so there is a bit of a class politics angle to the DUP vs UUP split.

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4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

  Because we knew we could rely on one of the usual suspects to bring it up. Surprised it took so long, notwithstanding it was only announced this morning.

If it had been a Sinn Fein councillor I suspect the delay would be no longer.

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18 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not sure that's true. The Northern Ireland Labour Party was left leaning and pro Union. It was often able to beat the UUP FPTP in working class parts of Belfast during the Stormont era. Since 1972 the DUP has been left leaning in economic terms as well as being socially conservative so there is a bit of a class politics angle to the DUP vs UUP split.

Can't remember the DUP or Ian Paisley ever being left leaning in economic or political terms. Relying on getting support from hardcore sectarians in the working class didn't make them socialists. Happy to be proved wrong though.

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On 17/09/2019 at 22:40, sophia said:

I caught up with the first episode of "Spotlight on the troubles: A secret history" and I'd recommend it.

Amidst repression, imperialism and poverty, there were some seriously bad guys back then.

Des Long cut a cold and cynical figure and was matched by the hot and damaging Paisley rhetoric.

(haha -  there's a funny h in rhetoric)

Yes, I have been watching it.

Paisley's early speeches sound like Boris's now.

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7 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Can't remember the DUP or Ian Paisley ever being left leaning in economic or political terms. Relying on getting support from hardcore sectarians in the working class didn't make them socialists. Happy to be proved wrong though.

Who exactly were pro-Union socialists in NI supposed to vote for during the Troubles when Labour was refusing to stand candidates or even let people from NI join? The advice from Westminster was vote SDLP who are so socialist that they are now in cahoots with Fianna Fail. 

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Who exactly were pro-Union socialists in NI supposed to vote for during the Troubles when Labour was refusing to stand candidates or even let people from NI join? The advice from Westminster was vote SDLP who are so socialist that they are now in cahoots with Fianna Fail. 

Where do the political parties in the Republic sit roughly on the spectrum, compared with UK parties?

 

I am assuming Fianna Fail are the tories?

 

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Labour are the traditional left wing party in the RoI (there are others nowadays as the left has splintered) and usually haven't had much support beyond the Dublin area and the other larger towns and cities, while Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are both centre right. The divide between the latter two still tends to revolve around what side your ancestors were on in the civil war back in the 1920s to a certain extent more than anything hugely ideological.

The SDLP in NI started off with some left wing rhetoric and a left wing sounding name but soon turned into what was effectively a continental style Christian Democrat party aligned closely with the Roman Catholic church. It's unfortunate that UK Labour didn't provide a genuine left wing alternative at Westminster elections in NI, but a significant portion of their activist base have tended to be from an Irish RC background in areas like the west of Scotland or Merseyside over the years, so influential people with strong Irish nationalist sympathies within their membership have been able to steer things away from any Labour involvement in NI. 

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Interesting read in today's News Letter - https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/mi5-protected-martin-mcguinness-for-years-says-thatcher-s-spy-within-sinn-fein-1-9096070

Don't know how much credence you can place on the "revelations" of an agent, especially when he's promoting his memoirs, but it makes you wonder how many high ranking agents were in Sinn Fein/IRA - Carlin, Donaldson,Stakeknife - and why it took 30 years to end The Troubles.

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