Scotland Centre Backs

[Peppino Impastato]

3 hours ago, Chimter-boys said:

Pep, I agree w most of your analysis re Scotland, but Bates is a solid player, just got nowhere near the technical or defensive attributes to make it at the international level. 

I don't know what his attributes are, just comparing our other options to him at the same age his level of progression is very good.  I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he had a very ropey debut, but it really has no bearing on anything, wait 18 months then see he looks, longer given his team also have to get promoted.  You're really looking at 2-3 years from now before you could definitively say.  Right now he clearly has a very good chance and is well worth keeping an eye on.

 

Harry souttar too nobody mentioned he's fkn class.

[eez-eh]

16 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

He was good enough for a bundesliga club to want to sign him and rangers want to keep him, at 21.  I'll take their opinion over some fanjita on the internet.

We had the exact same issue a year ago, with people on here like craigkillie and others telling us Stuart Findlay was pish cause they'd pure seen him so knew what they were talking about.  I said if Newcastle and Celtic both thought he was good enough to have on their books he will be decent.  Guess who was right.  Bates will almost certainly play for Scotland.  And I've never seen him play once, but you can take that to the bank.

Chelsea think Islam Feruz is good enough to have on their books, he must be a cracking player then?

[Chimter-boys]

9 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

I don't know what his attributes are, just comparing our other options to him at the same age his level of progression is very good.  I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he had a very ropey debut, but it really has no bearing on anything, wait 18 months then see he looks, longer given his team also have to get promoted.  You're really looking at 2-3 years from now before you could definitively say.  Right now he clearly has a very good chance and is well worth keeping an eye on.

 

Harry souttar too nobody mentioned he's fkn class.

High hopes for Souttar and Porteous (if Hibs get to Europa groups that would be class for his development)

Also high hopes for Chris Hamilton, who played for Hearts against Killie last seasin

[King Kebab]

Jason Kerr???

[Peppino Impastato]

3 hours ago, eez-eh said:

Chelsea think Islam Feruz is good enough to have on their books, he must be a cracking player then?

Not the same thing champ

[NM_1919]

Surely we should be having a look at Liam Lindsay who done well last year despite relegation and has started season well, linked with move to premiership and to Brescia last weekend. Liam Cooper surely deserves a proper chance too, captaining a Leeds team that’s flying. John Soutar as talked about should be in the mix too.

[BB_Bino]

Surely we should be having a look at Liam Lindsay who done well last year despite relegation and has started season well, linked with move to premiership and to Brescia last weekend. Liam Cooper surely deserves a proper chance too, captaining a Leeds team that’s flying. John Soutar as talked about should be in the mix too.

Would agree with this. I was surprised that Cooper and Lindsay haven’t been called up to any of the friendlies so far, this is the time where we should be looking at them.

I’m sure I read somewhere that Soutar is in McLeish’s plans, but he decided to leave him with the Under 21’s due to the fixtures that they have had.

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, BB_Bino said:

 

Would agree with this. I was surprised that Cooper and Lindsay haven’t been called up to any of the friendlies so far, this is the time where we should be looking at them.

I’m sure I read somewhere that Soutar is in McLeish’s plans, but he decided to leave him with the Under 21’s due to the fixtures that they have had.

 

Rumour is Souttar will be in for this next squad. Makes sense given Berra and McKenna out.

[woof!]

1 hour ago, Gordopolis said:

Rumour is Souttar will be in for this next squad. Makes sense given Berra and McKenna out.

It was McLeish who more or less said it.

[Enigma]

Surely we should be having a look at Liam Lindsay who done well last year despite relegation and has started season well, linked with move to premiership and to Brescia last weekend. Liam Cooper surely deserves a proper chance too, captaining a Leeds team that’s flying. John Soutar as talked about should be in the mix too.

Shouldn’t be looking to league one in England for international players. If he wants to play for Scotland he need to prove he can do it above bottom of the championship in England, which isn’t that great a level quality wise.

[SpoonTon]

All I see is a large enough number of half-decent young centre backs to disguise the fact that none of them are really that good. What we need is a defender who looks like a quality player at the top level - we're talking about a bunch of players who are decent to good Scottish Premiership or English Championship level players. We need at least one of them to actually be able to step up a level. 

[Virtual Insanity]

1 hour ago, Enigma said:

 

Shouldn’t be looking to league one in England for international players. If he wants to play for Scotland he need to prove he can do it above bottom of the championship in England, which isn’t that great a level quality wise.

 

Hendry failed at League One level down south. The league you play in should't be the sole determining factor in picking squads, if he gets a move to Brescia does he suddenly become good enough? Agree he needs a move sooner rather than later but it shouldn't rule him out when we're short of numbers. 

[woof!]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

All I see is a large enough number of half-decent young centre backs to disguise the fact that none of them are really that good. What we need is a defender who looks like a quality player at the top level - we're talking about a bunch of players who are decent to good Scottish Premiership or English Championship level players. We need at least one of them to actually be able to step up a level. 

They are all young, patience will be required. I can’t think of many outstanding 20 year old centre halves. 

[SpoonTon]

44 minutes ago, woof! said:

They are all young, patience will be required. I can’t think of many outstanding 20 year old centre halves. 

Hopefully one or two will step up, but they're not 20. McKenna and Souttar will be 22 soon, Lindsay will be 23 soon, and Hendry is 23 already. Still young and learning, and they have a chance of becoming good international players, but they are a long, long way off the top players of their age group. I'm not convinced by some of the optimism. 

Is like having a group of Andy Websters.

[Gordopolis]

23 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Hopefully one or two will step up, but they're not 20. McKenna and Souttar will be 22 soon, Lindsay will be 23 soon, and Hendry is 23 already. Still young and learning, and they have a chance of becoming good international players, but they are a long, long way off the top players of their age group. I'm not convinced by some of the optimism. 

Is like having a group of Andy Websters.

Pretty much this - still better than a few years ago when we had one Russell Martin, one Grant Hanley and sod all else. Not running either of those players down but it feels a little more comfortable having a few more options available

ETA: Webster was okay. Your mention of him reminded me how similar his career trajectory was to Paul Ritchie's: young very promising defender for Hearts who went off to all manner of clubs in England and had a non-event spell at Rangers before disappearing having achieved far less than they might have.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Gordopolis

[Peppino Impastato]

3 hours ago, Enigma said:

 

Shouldn’t be looking to league one in England for international players. If he wants to play for Scotland he need to prove he can do it above bottom of the championship in England, which isn’t that great a level quality wise.

 

He did well against top championship teams too, he can't help it if his team are shite.

[Peppino Impastato]

2 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

All I see is a large enough number of half-decent young centre backs to disguise the fact that none of them are really that good. What we need is a defender who looks like a quality player at the top level - we're talking about a bunch of players who are decent to good Scottish Premiership or English Championship level players. We need at least one of them to actually be able to step up a level. 

McKenna will be a premiership defender quite quickly.

[Enigma]

He did well against top championship teams too, he can't help it if his team are shite.

I kind of half see the point but if he’s as good as some say he wouldn’t still be puttering about League One after the English window has closed.

[Gordopolis]

4 minutes ago, Enigma said:

 

I kind of half see the point but if he’s as good as some say he wouldn’t still be puttering about League One after the English window has closed.

 

My thoughts too. Surely if EPL teams were interested in him as reported, it wouldn't be anywhere beyond their means to get him. He'd cost, what £1-5m?

Edited August 14, 2018 by Gordopolis

[Peppino Impastato]

8 hours ago, Enigma said:

 

I kind of half see the point but if he’s as good as some say he wouldn’t still be puttering about League One after the English window has closed.

 

I don't think he'll be there for very long, not if he keeps playing well.  We have no idea what went on over the summer, there might have been bids turned down or deals couldn't be reached there might be fitness issues or he might have just met the woman of his dreams in Barnsley and not wanted to move 200 miles away.  There's a million things that could have gone on.