GordonS Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 10:29, Cyclizine said: But no one from the SJFA engaged in debate. It was all "£100,000 toilets" and "£20 to get in", and that was from the head of the association. The SFA weren't blameless, but they had a plan for a pyramid and went with what they could. It's no surprise that SFA member clubs in the EoSFL and SoSFL were the main choices. I admit being surprised that BSCG and EK were admitted, but they are there now. More could have been done at the time, but it is the current system that will be adapted. We can't go back and it is pointless rehashing the old arguments, it is what can happen in the future that we need to debate now. I'm not blaming the SFA members. They want a pyramid like the one we have, they were already on the inside, and they prioritised their interests over those of clubs in the Juniors. Fair enough, any club would do that and the Juniors certainly do. I'm only making two points: that the gap is unbridgeable unless SFA member clubs make changes that few of them would want to make, which is entirely up to them, so talking about a pyramid is a waste of time; and my personal preference is the Juniors over the senior non-league. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said: Newlandsfield is a cracking Junior venue, probably my favourite away ground, but it has not had a great deal of investment for a fair old while. It would need some attention to the ground aspect if Pollok were to consider a licence in the future. I love Newlandsfield too, best shed in non-league football, but I think every ground really needs some seating. Older folk and people with less mobility struggle to stand for nearly two hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 hours ago, GordonS said: Edusport Academy, Broomhill Sports Club Glasgow (of Alloa), Cumbernauld Colts, Edinburgh and Stirling Unis and Civil Service Strollers are Mickey Mouse clubs. They belong in a pyramid, but not in the league, and yet any of them could within a season. I feel sorry for real clubs like Whitehill Welfare and Spartans playing teams like them. Junior clubs get far bigger crowds than LL clubs. they belong at whatever level their on-field performances take them to. that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 they belong at whatever level their on-field performances take them to. that's how it works. This, I'm not sure it matters that a hypothetical West Second Division or whatever has stronger teams than the West First, with 16 teams and 2/3 relegation/promotion places, after a couple if seasons it'll sort itself out. There's always going to be a transition period, no matter how you do it. If indeed the Div 2 clubs are stronger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 7 hours ago, GordonS said: Edusport Academy, Broomhill Sports Club Glasgow (of Alloa), Cumbernauld Colts, Edinburgh and Stirling Unis and Civil Service Strollers are Mickey Mouse clubs. They belong in a pyramid, but not in the league, and yet any of them could within a season. I feel sorry for real clubs like Whitehill Welfare and Spartans playing teams like them. Junior clubs get far bigger crowds than LL clubs. Since East Kilbride FC managed to avoid the Mickey Mouse tag, there's hope for BSC & Cumbernauld at the very least since they come from a similar background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mantis Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 7 hours ago, GordonS said: Junior clubs get far bigger crowds than LL clubs. Take your point but beyond the top few clubs like yours, it’s like 2 bald men fighting over a comb. I was at Girvan v Kilbirnie this season and there were well under 100 there and that’s the top flight. If you took away the travelling support then there were no more than the hardy regulars that turn up at Peffermill or Muirhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 hours ago, Wile E Coyote said: You'll need a loud voice to give McGoldrick pelters. He has left Pollok to take up a job in Dubai Ah, that was the talk last year as to why he was leaving Talbot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Shanner said: they belong at whatever level their on-field performances take them to. that's how it works. Premier League Colt teams in the pyramid then? You happy with that too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: Since East Kilbride FC managed to avoid the Mickey Mouse tag, there's hope for BSC & Cumbernauld at the very least since they come from a similar background. The people who set up EK wanted to provide a decent level of football for the people of the town. There's deliberately an attempt to create a club as part of the community. They're trying to get locals to come and follow the team. They're more like Livi. The other two were only established only to give regular football to the boys who've outgrown the youth set-up and not found other clubs. Cumbernauld are accidentally developing a bit of a community because they have loads of boys and girls throughout the age grades involved, and their families get interested too. My niece plays for them. They're also more rooted in Cumbernauld than Clyde are. As for BSC "Glasgow"... if they were playing games in the west end of Glasgow, then fine. Playing in Alloa shows they have no interest at all in being part of a community. As a big guy once said, football without fans is nothing. When you're not even trying to attract any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 7 hours ago, The Mantis said: Take your point but beyond the top few clubs like yours, it’s like 2 bald men fighting over a comb. I was at Girvan v Kilbirnie this season and there were well under 100 there and that’s the top flight. If you took away the travelling support then there were no more than the hardy regulars that turn up at Peffermill or Muirhouse. The only home fans the uni clubs get are friends of the players. Besides, you're comparing Tier 5 clubs, theoretically placed 43 to 76 in the national pyramid, with smaller Junior sides. I'd be amazed if there were more than three or four clubs in the East and West Superleagues than didn't get more fans every week than all but three of four in the LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, GordonS said: Premier League Colt teams in the pyramid then? You happy with that too? That's a large and desperate jump of 'logic' given that I haven't mentioned colt teams at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Shanner said: That's a large and desperate jump of 'logic' given that I haven't mentioned colt teams at any point. "they belong at whatever level their on-field performances take them to. that's how it works." Explain to me how that applies to BSC Glasgow and Stranraer Reserves but not Celtic U20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mantis Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, GordonS said: The only home fans the uni clubs get are friends of the players. Besides, you're comparing Tier 5 clubs, theoretically placed 43 to 76 in the national pyramid, with smaller Junior sides. I'd be amazed if there were more than three or four clubs in the East and West Superleagues than didn't get more fans every week than all but three of four in the LL. I already conceded your point FFS All I'm saying is Ed Uni and Strollers have been around for ages and do have a couple of dozen worthies that roll up when they're at home. Not so Stirling Uni where you're spot on. Girvan are mid table at the moment in the West Prem. So theoretically well up the pyramid. Kilbirnie are about 4th but I'm not belittling them, a fairly big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches O'Houlihan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, GordonS said: The people who set up EK wanted to provide a decent level of football for the people of the town. There's deliberately an attempt to create a club as part of the community. They're trying to get locals to come and follow the team. They're more like Livi. The other two were only established only to give regular football to the boys who've outgrown the youth set-up and not found other clubs. Cumbernauld are accidentally developing a bit of a community because they have loads of boys and girls throughout the age grades involved, and their families get interested too. My niece plays for them. They're also more rooted in Cumbernauld than Clyde are. As for BSC "Glasgow"... if they were playing games in the west end of Glasgow, then fine. Playing in Alloa shows they have no interest at all in being part of a community. As a big guy once said, football without fans is nothing. When you're not even trying to attract any... You really think BSC play in Alloa through choice??? The club are continually working towards getting a ground in Glasgow, but it’s not that easy! Trying to obtain land is difficult, before you even consider the cost of it. We are working on it every day, we are not just sitting back and accepting it. As for your point about not being part of the community, I can only laugh at that. We have over 500 members playing and training in the West end every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, GordonS said: "they belong at whatever level their on-field performances take them to. that's how it works." Explain to me how that applies to BSC Glasgow and Stranraer Reserves but not Celtic U20s. Explain where Celtic Under 21's are in the current pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 44 minutes ago, GordonS said: The people who set up EK wanted to provide a decent level of football for the people of the town. There's deliberately an attempt to create a club as part of the community. They're trying to get locals to come and follow the team. They're more like Livi. The other two were only established only to give regular football to the boys who've outgrown the youth set-up and not found other clubs. Cumbernauld are accidentally developing a bit of a community because they have loads of boys and girls throughout the age grades involved, and their families get interested too. My niece plays for them. They're also more rooted in Cumbernauld than Clyde are. As for BSC "Glasgow"... if they were playing games in the west end of Glasgow, then fine. Playing in Alloa shows they have no interest at all in being part of a community. As a big guy once said, football without fans is nothing. When you're not even trying to attract any... I doubt it was a conindence that Cumbernauld Colts decided to set up their side when all the talk about Clyde was off to East Kilbride, Shettleston or wherever they could get a better deal than for Broadwood. So it may well have been the same motiviation that East Kilbride FC have of having a Senior side that actually represents the town. It's also strange how you can say that Cumbernauld are creating a sense of community through their variety of youth teams etc, and then dismiss BSC Glasgow. The only real difference is that BSC have to play out of Alloa every other week and that isn't their long term aim. I'm sure if they could still be playing at Maryhill they would, but they're taking some short term pain in the hopes for a long term gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Patches O'Houlihan said: You really think BSC play in Alloa through choice??? The club are continually working towards getting a ground in Glasgow, but it’s not that easy! Trying to obtain land is difficult, before you even consider the cost of it. We are working on it every day, we are not just sitting back and accepting it. As for your point about not being part of the community, I can only laugh at that. We have over 500 members playing and training in the West end every week. Four clubs in the LL play closer to Glasgow than BSC Glasgow. Sorry, but it's ridiculous to claim they can't find a suitable ground closer to Broomhill that Clackmannanshire. Scotstoun, Renfrew, New Tinto Park, Petershill, Greenfield, Bellahouston Park, Glasgow Green, Lesser Hampden, Maryhill, Barlia, Holm Park... that's all off the top of my head. I'm sure I could come up with plenty more with a bit of research. Are you honestly telling me not one of them is available? Even New Douglas Park, K Park, Broadwood or Dumbarton would be better. I don't care how many play for BSC "Glasgow", that doesn't give them a community. That makes them a children's sports club. If the answer to "what is your football club for" isn't "to give our community a football team to support" then it can't be more than a really good youth club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Shanner said: Explain where Celtic Under 21's are in the current pyramid. That's dodging the point entirely. I'm asking you to explain why Edusport belong in the pyramid and Celtic U20s (not 21s) don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: I doubt it was a conindence that Cumbernauld Colts decided to set up their side when all the talk about Clyde was off to East Kilbride, Shettleston or wherever they could get a better deal than for Broadwood. So it may well have been the same motiviation that East Kilbride FC have of having a Senior side that actually represents the town. It's also strange how you can say that Cumbernauld are creating a sense of community through their variety of youth teams etc, and then dismiss BSC Glasgow. The only real difference is that BSC have to play out of Alloa every other week and that isn't their long term aim. I'm sure if they could still be playing at Maryhill they would, but they're taking some short term pain in the hopes for a long term gain. I don't think Cumbernauld are particularly trying to get the locals to come along and watch the big teams - helps that they have a women's team too - but it's a team with the same name as the one the kids play for, in the big stadium beside the pitches where they play. Who's driving from Partick to Alloa cos their kid plays for BSC Glasgow? I don't accept BSC can't find a pitch in Glasgow. What's the sticking point, their massive home support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 hours ago, The Mantis said: I already conceded your point FFS All I'm saying is Ed Uni and Strollers have been around for ages and do have a couple of dozen worthies that roll up when they're at home. Not so Stirling Uni where you're spot on. Girvan are mid table at the moment in the West Prem. So theoretically well up the pyramid. Kilbirnie are about 4th but I'm not belittling them, a fairly big club. Ah, I didn't realise Edinburgh Uni had any regular fans. I played against them at Peffermill when I was at Glasgow Uni, but obviously that was inter-uni football and only the saddest of the sad watch that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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