Ray Patterson Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 r/WallStreetBets is awful 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said: You seem to be pretty clued up about it, informative post. Is there an entity out there who actually mint Bitcoin? Where does it come from? If the price was to reach a new high of say £50k, who, or what, is issuing the shares at that price? It starts to hurt my head when I think about it too much, it’s hard to get your head around the fact it’s not backed up by anything tangible. It's still mined the same way it always has been, but nowadays with so much competition it takes an incredible amount of computing power to be worthwhile (by design, more miners competing to mint the coins results in needing more powerful hardware to have a chance of coming out on top). So in the early days you or I could mine it on our desktops but now it's huge hangars stacked to the ceiling with specialised equipment. Every 10 minutes 6.25 new bitcoins are minted by all this mining and this is the only new supply. This is cut in half every 4 years too so the supply will reduce over time (it was 12.5 every 10 mins until last summer). The new coins are rewarded to the miner who mined it and they can either keep it or sell it on the open market via the exchanges like Coinbase etc. The majority of bitcoins which will ever exist have already been mined though, so most buying and selling is existing holders selling back and forth. In theory the electrical and hardware costs of being a bitcoin miner puts a floor under the price. I'm not sure what the break-even price is now, but when the bitcoin price dropped down to under $4k last year it put some miners out of business. I'd imagine the mining cost must be much higher now though as the rising bitcoin price brings more miners in, and again the increased competition results in more energy costs required per bitcoin mined. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishBhoy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: It's still mined the same way it always has been, but nowadays with so much competition it takes an incredible amount of computing power to be worthwhile (by design, more miners competing to mint the coins results in needing more powerful hardware to have a chance of coming out on top). So in the early days you or I could mine it on our desktops but now it's huge hangars stacked to the ceiling with specialised equipment. Every 10 minutes 6.25 new bitcoins are minted by all this mining and this is the only new supply. This is cut in half every 4 years too so the supply will reduce over time (it was 12.5 every 10 mins until last summer). The new coins are rewarded to the miner who mined it and they can either keep it or sell it on the open market via the exchanges like Coinbase etc. The majority of bitcoins which will ever exist have already been mined though, so most buying and selling is existing holders selling back and forth. In theory the electrical and hardware costs of being a bitcoin miner puts a floor under the price. I'm not sure what the break-even price is now, but when the bitcoin price dropped down to under $4k last year it put some miners out of business. I'd imagine the mining cost must be much higher now though as the rising bitcoin price brings more miners in, and again the increased competition results in more energy costs required per bitcoin mined. Thanks for the explanation. I can’t say I completely understand it yet but I’m getting there So it’s actually the price of mining a Bitcoin which will halt supply then. Is there the possibility in the future of new technology being able to bring that price down again? I remember back when it first appeared reading about the mining side of it, and had a look to see how it was done but I was too young at that time and also has absolutely no knowledge in computers. I also remember seeing that you had to have quite high spec equipment to be able to mine it. Looking back I wish I’d maybe gave it a bit more thought, although I would have probably sold it when it hit $100. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said: Thanks for the explanation. I can’t say I completely understand it yet but I’m getting there So it’s actually the price of mining a Bitcoin which will halt supply then. Is there the possibility in the future of new technology being able to bring that price down again? I remember back when it first appeared reading about the mining side of it, and had a look to see how it was done but I was too young at that time and also has absolutely no knowledge in computers. I also remember seeing that you had to have quite high spec equipment to be able to mine it. Looking back I wish I’d maybe gave it a bit more thought, although I would have probably sold it when it hit $100. In theory yes, although if some new tech was invented to mine bitcoin cheaper, market forces would result in one of two things happening. Either it would put downward pressure on the bitcoin price, or more likely I think it would result in even more miners joining in until the increased competition resulted in the cost to mine reaching the original levels. I remember when I first started looking into bitcoin a bit more technically to better understand it. Even when I had a decent grasp on how it all worked, I still found myself thinking "but... why?" It's all very clever, and extremely secure as a network, but I'm not convinced it's all that useful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: In theory yes, although if some new tech was invented to mine bitcoin cheaper, market forces would result in one of two things happening. Either it would put downward pressure on the bitcoin price, or more likely I think it would result in even more miners joining in until the increased competition resulted in the cost to mine reaching the original levels. I remember when I first started looking into bitcoin a bit more technically to better understand it. Even when I had a decent grasp on how it all worked, I still found myself thinking "but... why?" It's all very clever, and extremely secure as a network, but I'm not convinced it's all that useful. I'd read that bitcoin itself is a pile of shi*e, for gullible fools. But that the real future for what underlies bitcoin, ie blockchain technology, is it's use in commercial back office applications. Edited January 23, 2021 by beefybake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishBhoy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: In theory yes, although if some new tech was invented to mine bitcoin cheaper, market forces would result in one of two things happening. Either it would put downward pressure on the bitcoin price, or more likely I think it would result in even more miners joining in until the increased competition resulted in the cost to mine reaching the original levels. I remember when I first started looking into bitcoin a bit more technically to better understand it. Even when I had a decent grasp on how it all worked, I still found myself thinking "but... why?" It's all very clever, and extremely secure as a network, but I'm not convinced it's all that useful. Yep definitely takes a bit of working out. I have so many other questions tbh but I won’t annoy you with them I will go and do a bit of research on it. I know I’ve went on about it a couple of times now but have you had a look at that Sorare platform. One of the things that has drawn me to it is the scarcity of the cards that you can buy, there will only ever be 100, 10 or 1 of every card, and once they are all in the hands of the users you can see some hefty price rises. They seem to already have a quite large user base, and so far I’ve had no problem selling back to the market. The cards that they only issue 1 of are called Uniques, and are getting bought on auction at quite ridiculous prices. 2 months ago someone bought Mbappe Unique card for near enough £50k (Edit- it would have been less than £50k, I didn’t take into account the rise in ETH price in that time) Edited January 23, 2021 by IrishBhoy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 36 minutes ago, beefybake said: I'd read that bitcoin itself is a pile of shi*e, for gullible fools. But that the real future for what underlies bitcoin, ie blockchain technology, is it's use in commercial back office applications. From a technical point of view bitcoin is a dinosaur but yes, as you say blockchain technology has many uses and will be a growing industry going forward. Lots of genuinely useful projects out there, but also lots of useless rubbish. 31 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said: Yep definitely takes a bit of working out. I have so many other questions tbh but I won’t annoy you with them I will go and do a bit of research on it. I know I’ve went on about it a couple of times now but have you had a look at that Sorare platform. One of the things that has drawn me to it is the scarcity of the cards that you can buy, there will only ever be 100, 10 or 1 of every card, and once they are all in the hands of the users you can see some hefty price rises. They seem to already have a quite large user base, and so far I’ve had no problem selling back to the market. The cards that they only issue 1 of are called Uniques, and are getting bought on auction at quite ridiculous prices. 2 months ago someone bought Mbappe Unique card for near enough £50k (Edit- it would have been less than £50k, I didn’t take into account the rise in ETH price in that time) I've not heard of that site before but it looks like others that trade in NFTs or 'non fungible tokens'. People create digital artwork or animations and tokenize it on the blockchain. It's quite a good idea imo and for example artists will use it to create limited, trackable digital prints etc. There's a Bitcoins thread if you want to ask away, I'm happy to answer if I can and other posters know more about other projects than I do. https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/207390-bitcoins/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 The Bitcoin Bros on Twitter (and I'd assume Reddit too, but I don't use that) are probably the Worst People On The Internet. Cult like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 47 minutes ago, yoda said: The Bitcoin Bros on Twitter (and I'd assume Reddit too, but I don't use that) are probably the Worst People On The Internet. Cult like. Agreed 100%. The "have fun staying poor" stuff pips Covid as the worst thing to come out of 2020 imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) Um, genuine question. Moonpig is about to be floated on the Stock Exchange. Quote In the year to April 2020, it made £44m worth of profit on the back of sales of £173m in sales. Now I know it's had a good pandemic - if you'll excuse the phrase - but how can it be worth Quote Citi bank and JP Morgan are leading the listing, Sky News first reported, which will value the company at more than £1bn, and potentially as much as £1.5bn is it just a "that's what people are willing to pay" deal? Edited January 25, 2021 by btb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, btb said: Um, genuine question. Moonpig is about to be floated on the Stock Exchange. Now I know it's had a good pandemic - if you'll excuse the phrase - but how can it be worth is it just a "that's what people are willing to pay" deal? Valuations of 10x earnings are pretty normal so that isn't hugely inflated really. The average ratio in US stock markets is about 15x , with ridiculous examples like Tesla at 140x. Edited January 25, 2021 by Zetterlund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 not a bubble 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holiday Song Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Been vaguely following that (well, I've been following quite closely without totally understanding it). The logic for buying GameStop was the price would have to keep rising as the hedgefund would need to keep covering their shorts. It closed at 148 yesterday, right now in pre trading it's at 333! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 On 24/01/2021 at 12:27, yoda said: The Bitcoin Bros on Twitter (and I'd assume Reddit too, but I don't use that) are probably the Worst People On The Internet. Cult like. It's just a fancy multi level marketing scam. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I don't know if it counts as a "bubble" if you're deliberately driving up the stock price to try and bankrupt a hedge fund. Semantics - and me being a dull pedant - aside, it's very funny. Markets are efficient and prices reflect all available information though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 When will the Pie and Bovril investment thread cause havoc in the London Stock Exchange? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holiday Song Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 13 minutes ago, yoda said: I don't know if it counts as a "bubble" if you're deliberately driving up the stock price to try and bankrupt a hedge fund. Semantics - and me being a dull pedant - aside, it's very funny. Markets are efficient and prices reflect all available information though Yep. Anyone trying to screw short sellers are okay by me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinatoon Bairn Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Got in at 71. It's a good laugh really, until it all goes chebs north. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Anyone currently investing into a green energy fund that’s doing alright just now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtuggie Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jamamafegan said: Anyone currently investing into a green energy fund that’s doing alright just now? iShares global Clean Energy fund is doing OK. RE the Gamestop stuff - its definitely funny to see Wall St. cry about manipulation of the prices - not that they haven't done it for decades. Get it up them and any short sellers. Edited January 27, 2021 by Shtuggie 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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