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EOS Grounds for Optimism


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1 hour ago, the tin man said:
1 hour ago, GordonS said:
You want restrictions relaxed when this is happening? Our death rate right now is where it was the day lockdown was imposed, on 23 March. Three weeks later the death rate was 17 times higher. Cases are 30 times higher than they were two months ago, and 10 times higher than they were 5 weeks ago, though testing has increased in that time.
I want the pubs and everything else non-essential closed before we go into the winter with a disaster all-but guaranteed. We're living in a world of denial right now.
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Am just back fi haggerston wi the bairns. If u follow the guidelines feel really safe. Scan the covid app at every entry point sanitise your hands. Remain socially distant. In the pool u arrived wi swim suit on under clothes on entry to pool u dipped ur hands umder shower. After the hpur session no showers u went to locker room got changed n left immediately. Football crowds around our parks can be socially distant no problem whatsoever

I think that's a good example of what I'm talking about. How do you think this virus is getting around so well? There's an illusion of safety through the masks and all the rest but they're just slowing it, now stopping it.

The app is an even better example - by the time it tells you that you need to isolate it's days since you were in contact with that person, and only 20% actually isolate after being notified anyway. It slows down the spread but it doesn't stop it.

I totally agree that 300 fans watching an EoS match in the open, with well-run clubs, is low risk. But right now I'm not comfortable saying it's low enough risk.

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1 hour ago, heedthebaa said:

You stay in the hoose, let the rest of us get on with our lives

And that selfishness is the WHOLE problem.

You don't give a damn about the people who won't be getting on with their lives, because they'll be dead.

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10 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I think that's a good example of what I'm talking about. How do you think this virus is getting around so well? There's an illusion of safety through the masks and all the rest but they're just slowing it, now stopping it.

The app is an even better example - by the time it tells you that you need to isolate it's days since you were in contact with that person, and only 20% actually isolate after being notified anyway. It slows down the spread but it doesn't stop it.

I totally agree that 300 fans watching an EoS match in the open, with well-run clubs, is low risk. But right now I'm not comfortable saying it's low enough risk.

GordonS has genuine concerns and they are understandable.

There are significant differences between now and the start of the pandemic in the UK. They have been discussed here ad nauseum.

It is a good idea to try to keep optimistic if possible. Testing is here when it wasn't before. It is picking up many, many, cases of covid which simply would not have been identified before. As such the covid figures for the earlier part of the pandemic would have been hugely greater if tests had been done then as they are being done now. It is also important to acknowledge that the UK, like most advanced nations, was lacking in the testing facilities needed to carry out the desired number of tests.

There is a chance that the next weeks will see a levelling out and then a decline in the numbers of new cases. The number of deaths ought to be proportionally less too as the NHS has learned a huge amount about dealing with the disease. One death is one too many but progress has been made, despite the careless attitude of the selfish few..

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14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

And that selfishness is the WHOLE problem.

You don't give a damn about the people who won't be getting on with their lives, because they'll be dead.

I’ve plenty in my life who I love who meet this criteria, so get off your high horse. If you’re vulnerable with underlying health issues, then by all means look after yourself and behave, do what’s right by yourselves. The players are allowed to play and are more likely to spread it than the people watching it. Do you honestly think our government covid policies make any sense ???  I’ve watched this level for years and there’s no doubt that social distancing could be easily done in a safe way. 

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1 hour ago, GordonS said:

You want restrictions relaxed when this is happening? Our death rate right now is where it was the day lockdown was imposed, on 23 March. Three weeks later the death rate was 17 times higher. Cases are 30 times higher than they were two months ago, and 10 times higher than they were 5 weeks ago, though testing has increased in that time.

I want the pubs and everything else non-essential closed before we go into the winter with a disaster all-but guaranteed. We're living in a world of denial right now.

I think the denial is the people like you who are so shit scared of their own shadow 

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1 hour ago, GordonS said:

I think that's a good example of what I'm talking about. How do you think this virus is getting around so well? There's an illusion of safety through the masks and all the rest but they're just slowing it, now stopping it.

The app is an even better example - by the time it tells you that you need to isolate it's days since you were in contact with that person, and only 20% actually isolate after being notified anyway. It slows down the spread but it doesn't stop it.

I totally agree that 300 fans watching an EoS match in the open, with well-run clubs, is low risk. But right now I'm not comfortable saying it's low enough risk.

Government must be racking it in. 80% being fined?. I was told that if you are told to isolate, you are contacted every day. To make sure you are isolating. 

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1 hour ago, Dev said:

GordonS has genuine concerns and they are understandable.

There are significant differences between now and the start of the pandemic in the UK. They have been discussed here ad nauseum.

It is a good idea to try to keep optimistic if possible. Testing is here when it wasn't before. It is picking up many, many, cases of covid which simply would not have been identified before. As such the covid figures for the earlier part of the pandemic would have been hugely greater if tests had been done then as they are being done now. It is also important to acknowledge that the UK, like most advanced nations, was lacking in the testing facilities needed to carry out the desired number of tests.

There is a chance that the next weeks will see a levelling out and then a decline in the numbers of new cases. The number of deaths ought to be proportionally less too as the NHS has learned a huge amount about dealing with the disease. One death is one too many but progress has been made, despite the careless attitude of the selfish few..

He does and they are valid concerns, but I felt @GordonS posts were a bit heavy with the drama-queenery and the bollux.

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10 hours ago, heedthebaa said:

You stay in the hoose, let the rest of us get on with our lives

You can tell people have lost contact with rationality over this, if they only show the new cases curve that fits their alarmist narrative and neglect to provide the daily deaths curve and ignore what's happening in countries like Sweden and Belarus that didn't do UK style lockdowns. 

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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How are EoS clubs planning to fund paying players? For a few this will be a ballbuster.
The problem remains little or no proper information.

I regularly check the EoS website and can't see any worthwhile information.

The season is due to start this weekend seemingly.
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3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

You can tell people have lost contact with rationality over this, if they only show the new cases curve that fits their alarmist narrative and neglect to provide the daily deaths curve and ignore what's happening in countries like Sweden and Belarus that didn't do UK style lockdowns. 

Belarus... FFS.

Ah Sweden, the favourite country of the kings of denial. 5,895 deaths in a country with a world-class health service and virtually no poverty. How did their neighbours, who had lockdowns, get on?

Oh.

Annotation (39).png

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4 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I'm  sure that persuasive input will have put his mind at rest and he'll have the whole family at the first game.

Correct. I am not scared of my own shadow. I am scared of a virus that has a decent chance of killing my sister-in-law who has asthma and is recovering from cancer treatment, my son's pal with diabetes and my 75-year-old father-in-law.

About 45,000 deaths so far in the UK, well over 100 new cases confirmed in West Lothian in the past week, and folk are convincing themselves that everything is fine.

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1 minute ago, GordonS said:

Belarus... FFS.

Ah Sweden, the favourite country of the kings of denial. 5,895 deaths in a country with a world-class health service and virtually no poverty. How did their neighbours, who had lockdowns, get on?

Oh.

Annotation (39).png

Neglects to include the curves for the UK, Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain on the carefully cherrypicked graph because doing so would not fit the alarmist narrative being peddled.

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4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Neglects to include the curves for the UK, Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain on the carefully cherrypicked graph because doing so would not fit the alarmist narrative being peddled.

In the land beyond cherrypicking you're arguing against comparing Sweden with very similar countries next door to it, and arguing for them being compared with much less comparable countries. Please tell me you have enough self-awareness to see this?

Sweden's death rate is only slightly lower than the UK's and we're a fucking shambles. We're the poorest country in north/ west Europe. 

You may be trying to convince yourself that your opinion is based on evidence, but it's really not. You're just looking for the evidence to fit your opinion.

I know I'm shouting into an echo chamber and everything I say means nothing, of course.

ETA this is all way off topic, of course.

Edited by GordonS
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5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Neglects to include the curves for the UK, Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain on the carefully cherrypicked graph because doing so would not fit the alarmist narrative being peddled.

Oh, and Sweden's death rate is HIGHER than France and the Netherlands. You look at the shape of the curves and where every country who had a lockdown bent deaths down from the end of April, Sweden's continues to climb until mid July.

Is there anything to be said for evidence-based public health?

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2 minutes ago, GordonS said:

....Sweden's death rate is only slightly lower than the UK's and we're a fucking shambles....

That it would be lower (the important thing is that it's comparable rather than the exact details) should tell you something about the effectiveness of the UK's stricter lockdown response.

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12 hours ago, lithgierose said:

Government must be racking it in. 80% being fined?. I was told that if you are told to isolate, you are contacted every day. To make sure you are isolating. 

Yup, 80% have said in medical research that they aren't self-isolating after being notified through test and trace. Not sure they're telling the police, mind. 

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Just now, LongTimeLurker said:

That it would be lower (the important thing is that it's comparable rather than the exact details) should tell you something about the effectiveness of the UK's stricter lockdown response.

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"Data as of 1 May." Is there a reason you're using five-month old data?

UK may have had a stricter lockdown but it also has far more poverty in number and severity, a weaker health system, an less healthy population and many, many more people coming into the country. You're choosing to ignore the obvious in comparing Sweden with similar countries.

Did you know that Sweden did end up introducing restrictions? And that the most commonly attributed reason why deaths didn't continue to rise is because the go on holiday in mid June?

https://www.ft.com/content/7acfc5b8-d96f-455b-9f36-b70dc850428f

 

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