Kelty Hearts & the EOS League

[Che Dail]

7 hours ago, pie n beans said:

 

Kelty  are making massive efforts to develop on and off the park where LT have not, LT have made lots of money over the past three seasons and could easily have developed their ground but choose not to.

So for me Kelty are planning for the future wher LT are not, I hope I am wrong but I think LT will pip Kelty for the title.

LTHV are planning upgrades to Saughton - they've got permission for a covered enclosure, toilets, changing rooms etc to get the ground up to standard. 

LL has been their aim but it's not a straightforward arrangement with Edinburgh Leisure on lease / ownership.

And they currently groundshare with Tynecastle (I dont understand why the  council put the 3G out the back and not in the enclosure!)

On the youth playing side Hutchie Vale have long been one of the top clubs in the country for promoting kids to pro clubs.

[Auld Heid]

8 hours ago, kefc said:

The investment in the facilities is for the benefit of a Community and a strong growing Community Club. The Club has no debts whatsoever and never will have. If we can generate funds to improve the facilities that will better everyone in the village for 100 plus years and make the Football Club financially stronger, where’s the problem?

The investment in the new facilities will pay for themselves, our current Social Club and Sports Bar that we built years ago prove this, it clearly works but we have now outgrown them.  All our efforts and investment will make us even stronger and will pay for itself in time, bigger Social Club open to all on Matchday and for functions at weekends every week, Bigger Hospitality Sports Bar, SFA Membership, Prize Money. In just 4 months of moving associations we are minimum £20k better off each year just for being Licenced. Linlithgow have this start on other clubs  also.

Have we got a massive fan base yet? NO Are we on the right tracks and improving? YES. Remember It’s not just every 2nd Saturday afternoon like most clubs where we generate money, it’s 2/3 days every week. This is where we have the advantage over most other clubs.

This level of investment obviously is far from the norm at this level and might be hard to understand for some but our committee have a wealth of business and football knowledge and are working to a detailed business model that works and has worked on and off the pitch for the last 3 years in the SJFA with no financial help from the association. We now have a to be bettered model in an association where your rewarded for your efforts on and off the pitch, it’s quite a nice thought to know there is rewards out there for the hard work we all put in.

The Gaffer and the players aren’t half doing an excellent job on the pitch too and have done the last few years which also helps massively.

I always admire your posts and ambition that you are showing.

Fan base/participation  for me should be the key driver on this.   If people  don't buy into this  will the journey have been a waste of time?

The SFL is  full of clubs playing in front of a handful of fans surviving on hand outs - do such clubs really add value or are they more of a hinderance by diluting an already limited pot.

Kelty left just as they became a competitor

[pie n beans]

We will see if it happens at LT, i was involved with HV yrs ago and they were planning a wee ground then and that was a go 10 yrs ago but still ground sharing now, tyni are not the only team using it, it gets hammered on a Sunday by so many teams both male and female.

Your right about the 4G astro, the only way forward is to make it 4G on the main pitch and get their youth teams using it so they have a base instead of being all over Edinburgh.

[FairWeatherFan]

Any club that can afford to get a SFA Club License without bankrupting themselves should, especially those in the North & West Junior Regions. If you don't want to be in the pyramid fine, you've got plenty of quirks with the likes of Banks O'Dee, Golspie Sutherland, Girvan, Glasgow University and Linlithgow Rose. You could could well be the next one.

The Highland League is blocked unless you try to force their hand. The SoS is now running with 15 teams what happens if two more clubs from the West of Scotland decide to join up?

I'd like to see Clydebank go for it as talked about, partly because what's to stop Yoker Athletic getting a License at the same time. The pyramid we have now is getting to a breaking point, if you've got a license you've got a say in what comes next.

[Jambo'ness]

8 hours ago, Skipper said:

If Boness go, we wont be far behind. Inconceivable we remain junior allowing them to hoover up the big bucks.

Here's something I don't understand.  Linlithgow are licenced, Bo'ness aren't .  Yet it would appear they are waiting on us to make a move before committing themselves.  Are they scared?  In my eyes, they've missed out by waiting to see what others do.

Whatever they do now will be reactionary not proactionary, unlike Kelty.

[Che Dail]

11 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If you don't want to be in the pyramid fine, you've got plenty of quirks with the likes of Banks O'Dee, Golspie Sutherland, Girvan, Glasgow University and Linlithgow Rose. You could could well be the next one.

...you've now got to join the pyramid, it is a condition of the licence.

[Hillonearth]

12 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

...you've now got to join the pyramid, it is a condition of the licence.

Yep, the only reason the likes of Linlithgow retain the choice is that they retain grandfather rights due to when they got their license.

The likes of us - we play in a licensed ground, but if we applied for a club license we'd be playing at Abbey Vale and Creetown next season.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

...you've now got to join the pyramid, it is a condition of the licence.

I know. What I don't know is what the Highland League/South of Scotland will look like with additional licensees.

A new licensee in the North. Does the SFA force the Highland Football League to run with 19 teams? Do all the existing HFL clubs that don't really want to progress further kick up a fuss and say no?

2 licensees in the West. Does the SoSFL run with 17 teams? Does the SFA give a nudge to the Reserve teams to back out? Do all the clubs without a license & are getting inconvenienced decline entry to the SoSFL.

[Jambo'ness]

Eventually, a complete revamp of the pyramid will be necessary.  Some parts will be top-heavy, others inaccessible and inconvenient.

The barriers between Junior and Senior need to end and every club should be allowed to find its own level. 

Perhaps the solution will be to have more local leagues, including reserve sides if necessary, feeding into the 'ponds' where progress is possible.   There must be a rule that you can only go so far without a licence and reserve sides should not be allowed out of their local branch.

For sure, there is no answer to please everyone but bumbling about in the dark as most are now, will get us nowhere.

[energyzone]

My geography is nae the best but I'm sure there's an ambitious team called Bonnyton based in Ayrshire somewhere who possibly have the best chance of progression up the pyramid given the league they're playing in at present.
Ambitious bigger west junior teams wouldn't take long to get to the LL through that route in my opinion. Surprised it's taken 5 pages,  they (Bonnyton) haven't been mentioned yet or are they just being completely ignored in potential scenarios [emoji6]

The problem with Bonnyton Thistle is that they have no fans, have a Premiership club in the same town and any lower league football fans in outlying villages are already aligned to one of the many junior clubs in Ayrshire. They don't play in Bonnyton and their ground is in an industrial estate, a distance away from any housing. I really don't know what their long term goal is - to rise through the leagues or simply provide an outlet for their many boys club levels? Either way, you need fans to make the venture a success and I'm not sure how they can achieve that.

I always admire your posts and ambition that you are showing.
Fan base/participation  for me should be the key driver on this.   If people  don't buy into this  will the journey have been a waste of time?
The SFL is  full of clubs playing in front of a handful of fans surviving on hand outs - do such clubs really add value or are they more of a hinderance by diluting an already limited pot.
Kelty left just as they became a competitor

Add value to what though? Who would they be hindering? They have as much right to play in a national league as Celtic do.

[Auld Heid]

11 minutes ago, Jambo'ness said:

Here's something I don't understand.  Linlithgow are licenced, Bo'ness aren't .  Yet it would appear they are waiting on us to make a move before committing themselves.  Are they scared?  In my eyes, they've missed out by waiting to see what others do.

Whatever they do now will be reactionary not proactionary, unlike Kelty.

At the time involvement in the Scottish Cup was relatively new - but entry was not a gimme (league or Scottish).  Given our set up at that time largely met the criteria of membership - you could suggest that we were actually proactive in securing membership ahead of the pack. 

Going forwards I don't think I have seen or heard anything that suggests there is any real appetite for us to make the move (that may change).   Our structure isn't something which appeared overnight but has come from years of investment.

[newcastle broon]

59 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Yep, the only reason the likes of Linlithgow retain the choice is that they retain grandfather rights due to when they got their license.

The likes of us - we play in a licensed ground, but if we applied for a club license we'd be playing at Abbey Vale and Creetown next season.

But the LL the following season providing yous would win a play off against the now looking strong  EoSFL side...... 

That's probably a stumbling point for junior sides not hitting the LL after one season. 

[Che Dail]

4 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

But the LL the following season providing yous would win a play off against the now looking strong  EoSFL side...... 

That's probably a stumbling point for junior sides not hitting the LL after one season. 

Would the LL go for 2 up 2 down? 

Early agreement on this might encourage more junior clubs to apply... LL potentially very competitive in 2-3 years if Boness, Linlithgow and Clydebank go for it... 

[newcastle broon]

38 minutes ago, energyzone said:

 

The problem with Bonnyton Thistle is that they have no fans, have a Premiership club in the same town and any lower league football fans in outlying villages are already aligned to one of the many junior clubs in Ayrshire. They don't play in Bonnyton and their ground is in an industrial estate, a distance away from any housing. I really don't know what their long term goal is - to rise through the leagues or simply provide an outlet for their many boys club levels? Either way, you need fans to make the venture a success and I'm not sure how they can achieve that.



Add value to what though? Who would they be hindering? They have as much right to play in a national league as Celtic do.

 

Thanks for that though I disagree regarding the fans bit both BSC and Edusport seem to be managing ok. I've said for long enough whether we like it or not,  as long as can be run within their  means then there's nothing stopping these teams. 

[newcastle broon]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

Would the LL go for 2 up 2 down? 

Early agreement on this might encourage more junior clubs to apply... LL potentially very competitive in 2-3 years if Boness, Linlithgow and Clydebank go for it... 

That would make the process of teams finding there level quicker but a wee bit confusing as 2 may yet go down from the LL this season if the HFL champions get promoted to SPFL. 

[kefc]

3 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

I always admire your posts and ambition that you are showing.

Fan base/participation  for me should be the key driver on this.   If people  don't buy into this  will the journey have been a waste of time?

The SFL is  full of clubs playing in front of a handful of fans surviving on hand outs - do such clubs really add value or are they more of a hinderance by diluting an already limited pot.

Kelty left just as they became a competitor

We had 3 crowds last year around 1000, Kilwinning, HOB, Bonnyrigg our support turn out when we need them, we have a core 200 at present at every home match in the EOS, 60 plus travelling all over at our away matches in the EOS League. This will rise the further we go up the pyramid, If we were ever lucky enough to get to the SPFL then we would be happy with an average of 350-400, again the bigger crowds for big derbies or cup games.

Kelty turn out in the big games there’s no getting away from that. Last game of last season when we lifted the title against Bonnyrigg 800 plus. Compare that to Linlithgow and Bonnyrigg crowds when they last won the league at their ground, it’s clear to see on you tube videos only half that turned out.

Our crowds are good, not great like a Linlithgow, Boness but it’s growing, another important part of our decision was 900 new houses and a business park being built at the motorway entrance, potentially 3000 new incoming people to tap into and businesses.

Time will tell on this, happy to take everyone’s opinions so we will need to wait and see I suppose. Your club is prime to make this move btw in terms of fan base, facilities and you have the licence. Wonder what Linlithgow’s stance would be if they removed the funding or and licence, I may be wrong but Licence reviews are done yearly as far as I’m aware.

 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

I fail to see how improving facilities can be seen as 'outwaying [sic] the product'. I'm aware that some clubs have ploughed cash into their teams whilst playing in a midden, but I'm sure you're not suggesting this is the way forward, are you?

Not for a minute, think I said somewhere in this thread, or perhaps another one, that it is great to see clubs investing in their facilities and I include Kelty in this, clearly. However the new proposed investment will cost a hell of a lot of money, the Kelty guys seem to think it's sound, perhaps it will be, good luck to them. However, having a lot of experience in this sort of thing and being less than enthused by the grade and environment they are heading, I just wonder if they could be moving too fast too soon. However, others are saying that Bo'ness and Lithgie will follow to this environ leaving quite a hole in the Juniors, which might be enough to create a shake up. However, lots of ifs buts and maybes. Seriously, good luck to Kelty, but I do think it is all a good point for discussion and, if you like, playing Devil's Advocate to some degree.

Gogsy, calm doon pal, I do like your club's ambition!

[db11]

Has work started on the stand opposite the changing rooms yet?

[fueradejuego]

Always enjoy reading the condescending comments of Goudie towards anyone outside of her beloved Junior world.

Even words of praise towards the achievements of Kelty are forced and inevitably come with a "but" to forewarn of impending doom.

 

[RedEd]

4 hours ago, energyzone said:

 

 

The problem with Bonnyton Thistle is that they have no fans, have a Premiership club in the same town and any lower league football fans in outlying villages are already aligned to one of the many junior clubs in Ayrshire. They don't play in Bonnyton and their ground is in an industrial estate, a distance away from any housing. I really don't know what their long term goal is - to rise through the leagues or simply provide an outlet for their many boys club levels? Either way, you need fans to make the venture a success and I'm not sure how they can achieve that.



Add value to what though? Who would they be hindering? They have as much right to play in a national league as Celtic do.

 

I doubt many of the boys (and girls) who play for Bonnyton's teams live in Bonnyton. And it's not that far from housing,  Townholm, Dean and New Farm Loch are all pretty close to the ground. I take your point though, there are a number of established sides nearby and establishing a support will be difficult unless they can climb the leagues.. Good luck to them, they have fairly big plans.