Kelty Hearts & the EOS League

[Auld Heid]

5 minutes ago, leomessi1984 said:

Kelty chose financial? Building a strong club? 

Surely Kelty are doing exactly that, building a strong club that will last with a great venue and ever increasing fanbase.  Nonsense post.

Fully agree they are building a strong club and great venue.

KEFC has stated that one of the motivators was the access a licence will give them to finances via Scottish Cup etc.  

Look at their footballing record - 1 Super League win and moved to EoS.   Kelty had a chance to be a junior super power - but chose a different route.  For me that was choosing finance over football (my opinion - and not a dig at Kelty)

[leomessi1984]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

Fully agree they are building a strong club and great venue.

KEFC has stated that one of the motivators was the access a licence will give them to finances via Scottish Cup etc.  

Look at their footballing record - 1 Super League win and moved to EoS.   Kelty had a chance to be a junior super power - but chose a different route.  For me that was choosing finance over football (my opinion - and not a dig at Kelty)

Fair enough.  I've no doubt money talks to every club, to think otherwise would be naive.  However in my opinion for Kelty it's about growth and progress on and off the park.

Also was it not two super league wins in three seasons?

[Jambo'ness]

2 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Ground criteria would also come into play - there should be set standards that teams require to meet.

Overall for me - you  start from scratch with rules and guidelines which teams require to meet or they are demoted.  At present we have a pyramid with not every team able to progress but can stop others.

And this is exactly why the SFA should be more proactive.  Instead of leaving us squabbling about who should be where, which will always contain an element of self-interest, the SFA should be laying the foundations of the pyramid, with as many feeder leagues as are required.  Putting firm rules in place that will leave no-one in any doubt as to what they need to do.  Give clubs the right to 'opt out' and find a lower level that suits

 

However, they are only concerned with two teams in this country.

[Jason King]

3 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Fully agree they are building a strong club and great venue.

KEFC has stated that one of the motivators was the access a licence will give them to finances via Scottish Cup etc.  

Look at their footballing record - 1 Super League win and moved to EoS.   Kelty had a chance to be a junior super power - but chose a different route.  For me that was choosing finance over football (my opinion - and not a dig at Kelty)

Two Super League Wins not one.

Kelty had the chance to progress to a higher grade of football with far more further opportunities available to them. For me they chose the future of football over some mythical past or inadequate present. That Linlithgow are happy to wallow in the backwaters says a lot about where they see the club in the future compared to the vision shown by Kelty.

[non_sequitur]

17 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

The current South Junior Division is the perfect environment for the likes of Burntisland, Coldstream, Ormiston, Peebles, Eyemouth and Coldstream with more equitable competition and they get to keep their licence if the East of Scotland merges with the Juniors in the Pyramid. This is what it could look like

Burntisland Shipyard, Coldstream, Crossgates Primrose, Craigroyston, Easthouses Lily MW, Eyemouth Utd, Harthill Royal, Kirkcaldy YM, Livingston United, Lochgelly Albert, Oakley United,  Ormiston, Peebles Rovers, Rosyth, Stoneyburn Juniors, West Calder United 

7 Lothians, 6 Fife, 3 Borders clubs.   In Burntisland’s case, 5 games in Fife and only three trips to the borders. Has to be a better environment to develop and attract players and be competitive most games plus a derby against Kirkcaldy and Scottish Cup entry.  The likes of Tynecastle, Leith, Preston, Herriot Watt integrate higher up the Junior pyramid.  This is the sort of stuff that should be getting discussed between the two organisations and for the Juniors I’m no sure what there is to be scared of.

Spot on that wid be brilliant league for the Shippy to play in

[kefc]

5 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Fully agree they are building a strong club and great venue.

KEFC has stated that one of the motivators was the access a licence will give them to finances via Scottish Cup etc.  

Look at their footballing record - 1 Super League win and moved to EoS.   Kelty had a chance to be a junior super power - but chose a different route.  For me that was choosing finance over football (my opinion - and not a dig at Kelty)

1 of the motivators was finance to help build the club amongst a whole lot of others, you have it fixed in your mind it was all about money it isnt and iv stated that to you numerous times.

More, exposure, fixture list, u20 league, national cup competitions, financial help, rewards for success, part of the national body, no glass ceiling, all this far out weighed the setup in the SJFA for us.

Junior football whether we like it or not is on the decline imo, not by any fault of the clubs may i add but due to a number of other factors that we can all talk about all week, every day on this forum their baffling decisions are spoken about, we didnt want to be part of something that hindered our club in any way which went against what we were trying to do.

We looked at ways where the club can grow and flourish, getting an SFA Licence and joining the pyramid was the only option. Iv also stated we wanted to get in 1st as change may come in a few years, im still convinced the Lowland league will be the premier non league division in Scotland fairly soon and will attract the best players, again we shall have to wait and see.

Your obviously happy with your club Linlithgow and its vision for the future of trying to dominate junior football with the £20k help they get from the SFA over all other clubs, they were clever enough to get the SFA Licence at the time so fair play.

We are delighted with the decision we have made and 100% think it was the correct thing to do, everyone involved at the club feels the same including the supporters.

 

[HTG]

59 minutes ago, kefc said:

 

 Linlithgow ... were clever enough to get the SFA Licence at the time so fair play.

 

 

Just to be clear here, there was nothing clever about what Linlithgow did.  Linlithgow went through all of the steps that Kelty have gone through - and did so years earlier.  Linlithgow met all of the licence requirements in place at the time of their application. That wasn't clever - just getting on with the job we'd been doing for generations in terms of upgrading our facilities at the same time as keeping a decent team on the pitch. 

I thought it was well established that Kelty would have opted to remain in the Superleague had they been able to secure their licence in that environment. There is a degree of revisionism going on here when Leomessi describes the league Kelty left as a "backwater". 

The position taken last season of aspiring to stay junior but with a licence may have changed now that you're half way through the year of pain but setting it out as the preferrred option is coloured by timing surely. 

Edited to add that my personal view of the pyramid is almost diametrically opposite to that of Auld Heid.  But whatever happens we both want the best for our club. 

[AlanCamelonfan]

The only way forward istaying a merger and sort it properly. As it stands WE are better where we are. Kelty done what' right for them might not be rIghtfield for others in its current state 

[kefc]

58 minutes ago, HTG said:

Just to be clear here, there was nothing clever about what Linlithgow did.  Linlithgow went through all of the steps that Kelty have gone through - and did so years earlier.  Linlithgow met all of the licence requirements in place at the time of their application. That wasn't clever - just getting on with the job we'd been doing for generations in terms of upgrading our facilities at the same time as keeping a decent team on the pitch. 

I thought it was well established that Kelty would have opted to remain in the Superleague had they been able to secure their licence in that environment. There is a degree of revisionism going on here when Leomessi describes the league Kelty left as a "backwater". 

The position taken last season of aspiring to stay junior but with a licence may have changed now that you're half way through the year of pain but setting it out as the preferrred option is coloured by timing surely. 

Maybe clever was the wrong word, having the foresight and vision is what i meant which is to be applauded. I genuinely wasnt having a dig at Linlithgow, they are a club everyone admires.

If we could have got a licence and stayed Junior it wouldnt have led us to do the extensive research we done and we might have remained junior. After the research was done though it was a no brainer. If things do change in the SJFA it could be a few years to get into what we feel will be the top non league division, the LL. We felt to get in early and have the club on a solid base was the best option.

[cowdenbeath]

8 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Out of interest, what's the general feeling among your fanbase of the Kelty rise?

No really heard folk say much about it either way. I know a few fans who go to their games sometimes when we are away. Both have connections with the place though and I think they went now and again when Kelty were in the juniors.

[HTG]

43 minutes ago, kefc said:

Maybe clever was the wrong word, having the foresight and vision is what i meant which is to be applauded. I genuinely wasnt having a dig at Linlithgow, they are a club everyone admires.

If we could have got a licence and stayed Junior it wouldnt have led us to do the extensive research we done and we might have remained junior. After the research was done though it was a no brainer. If things do change in the SJFA it could be a few years to get into what we feel will be the top non league division, the LL. We felt to get in early and have the club on a solid base was the best option.

I can understand that. Once you make the big decision it helps clear the scales away a bit. 

[cmontheloknow]

31 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

No really heard folk say much about it either way. I know a few fans who go to their games sometimes when we are away. Both have connections with the place though and I think they went now and again when Kelty were in the juniors.

ok, though you could be in the same division next season the way things are going. They must be a threat surely, the higher they go?

[cowdenbeath]

10 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

ok, though you could be in the same division next season the way things are going. They must be a threat surely, the higher they go?

Still a long way to go with still half a season to go for each side. It could very well happen and it may not. We have plenty of things to worry about the current season before getting into who we play next season.

 

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, cowdenbeath said:

Still a long way to go with still half a season to go for each side. It could very well happen and it may not. We have plenty of things to worry about the current season before getting into who we play next season.

 

I was thinking longer term than that in terms of threat but good luck in getting out of the danger zone!

[leomessi1984]

2 hours ago, HTG said:

Just to be clear here, there was nothing clever about what Linlithgow did.  Linlithgow went through all of the steps that Kelty have gone through - and did so years earlier.  Linlithgow met all of the licence requirements in place at the time of their application. That wasn't clever - just getting on with the job we'd been doing for generations in terms of upgrading our facilities at the same time as keeping a decent team on the pitch. 

I thought it was well established that Kelty would have opted to remain in the Superleague had they been able to secure their licence in that environment. There is a degree of revisionism going on here when Leomessi describes the league Kelty left as a "backwater". 

The position taken last season of aspiring to stay junior but with a licence may have changed now that you're half way through the year of pain but setting it out as the preferrred option is coloured by timing surely. 

Edited to add that my personal view of the pyramid is almost diametrically opposite to that of Auld Heid.  But whatever happens we both want the best for our club. 

Not sure where I described any league as a backwater?  Maybe confused with another poster.  The juniors is a great place to be, I just don't think that will the case in the longer term.

[parsforlife]

Would think Kelty and cowden are more likely to become healthy rivals than be a threat to each other

 

[HTG]

2 hours ago, leomessi1984 said:

Not sure where I described any league as a backwater?  Maybe confused with another poster.  The juniors is a great place to be, I just don't think that will the case in the longer term.

My apologies - it was Jason. 

[8MileBU]

5 hours ago, kefc said:

Maybe clever was the wrong word, having the foresight and vision is what i meant which is to be applauded. I genuinely wasnt having a dig at Linlithgow, they are a club everyone admires.

If we could have got a licence and stayed Junior it wouldnt have led us to do the extensive research we done and we might have remained junior. After the research was done though it was a no brainer. If things do change in the SJFA it could be a few years to get into what we feel will be the top non league division, the LL. We felt to get in early and have the club on a solid base was the best option.

I think Kelty have made the right move as the pyramid is the way forward. It’s all very well obtaining a licence to play in the Big Scottish, but by staying Junior it could have lead to the Superleague just becoming a stagnant, repetitive snoozefest where the same couple of licenced clubs gain the funds from a run in the Big Scottish every year and then just end up strolling to the league title season upon season. Basically just a Junior version of how our top domestic league has been for decades, and it’s boring as f**k.

[db11]

I think Kelty have made the right move as the pyramid is the way forward. It’s all very well obtaining a licence to play in the Big Scottish, but by staying Junior it could have lead to the Superleague just becoming a stagnant, repetitive snoozefest where the same couple of licenced clubs gain the funds from a run in the Big Scottish every year and then just end up strolling to the league title season upon season. Basically just a Junior version of how our top domestic league has been for decades, and it’s boring as f**k.

It hasnt been like that though. Lithgae have their licence for years and havent managed to win the league since. If the pyramid was that great an attraction lithgae would have shifted.
I personally think lithgae have best of both worlds. Super league is more competitive than lowland league and the junior cup is by far best cup comp. Senior cup by far the best money earner though.

[wullie robb]

8 Mile, The Superleague is a decent standard and has some players capable of playing at a much higher level although I doubt some would welcome the travel for probably not much more coin. 

I totally understand what Kelty have done and hope they succeed, but I'm not sure even if they win the lowland league in the next few years the fan base would treble in numbers. 

However a bit of history searching suggests that if Linlithgow or Bo'ness were to achieve league status they would undoubtedly have the highest lower league attendance easily, and potential to add to it. 

Winning the Junior Scottish Cup is a great achievement but managing to achieve league status and sustain it,  imo would be a far better journey than knowing that you only have three or four main rivals to the junior title every season apart from this year as Bo'ness are not anywhere near the side they were but I'm sure you know what I mean. 

I attended Bo'ness v Elgin at Bo'ness and linlithgow v Forfar what an atmosphere absolutely fantastic, Probably more so that you can stand and move around the ground as you please rather than having to sit in a seat and do as your told, Even Falkirk Stadium is boring most weeks with thousands in seat's it just lacks any atmosphere, I understand why certain fan's watch junior football, it's the closest thing they will get to when you could watch a game standing beside your mates. 

So it really boils down to taking three or four seasons to have a go at gaining league status or spending the next three or four seasons chasing the junior Cup and playing in a league that in all honesty only four or five teams are going to win. 

Kelty have chosen the former and good luck to them, I very much doubt it will be long before others follow,

You're absolutely spot on with what you said in my opinion.