lithgierose Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Jambo'ness said: They have openly stated they are looking into the matter but when is another matter. Equally, I've heard otherwise. Rumours, huh? Much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with you that we are not in the best position to change. However, give it a year and a lot of ground improvements should have been made courtesy of the NPA. It is rather comical however, that some clubs currently in that League, struggle to provide an enclosed field and those wishing to make a move up are having to comply with ever more stringent rules. how is that coming along BTW.not seen much about it.what was the outcome of the surrounding residents being asked about it.apparently they were all lettered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Goalie Hamish said: Wasn't there already a period of grace when it first started, that should be extended to everyone entering the league. That was 4 years ago so there has been plenty time for all clubs to get properly organised and apply to join the league. The LL didn't extend a period of grace last season to LTHV who have been EoS members for years so I can't see why they'd bend the rules for Junior clubs arriving late. The Licensing requirements really aren't that onerous, check out Civil Service Strollers' park as evidence. If SL Junior clubs can't get their ground to that level then maybe their priorities should change i.e. could the playing budget take a hit for a couple of seasons in favour of the long-term benefits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Jambo'ness said: It is rather comical however, that some clubs currently in that League, struggle to provide an enclosed field and those wishing to make a move up are having to comply with ever more stringent rules. 2 hours ago, Auld Heid said: This has been one of my main gripes - teams in leagues that don't meet criteria. People talk about pyramids but are content to have teams who aren't really in a position to progress - you will only succeed if teams involved are all equal in meeting the criteria to progress. 2 hours ago, parsforlife said: You can't have a requirement that clubs must be able meet the standards of the league above. As explained previously it doesn't work. Most of EOSL clubs are improving their grounds and as referenced in the recent press coverage on Peebles the league has new criteria on enclosed grounds and on working towards licenses - which is sensible, IMO, it's less than LL but more than a roped park. In practice most clubs are upgrading their grounds. Kelty have been mentioned; LTHV (which also covers Tynecastle) have installed a toilet block and catering hut plus are putting up 2 small enclosures in the spring; Heriot-Watt are currently building a 400-seat grandstand; Ormiston are moving to a new enclosed park with a small covered terracing later in the season; Peebles, the last unenclosed ground, are enclosing theirs in the closed season; Eyemouth have finished enclosing theirs and apparently plan to put up cover as the next stage; Leith have just moved to Peffermill and will move back to the new Meadowbank Athletics Arena when completed in 2yrs time; Burntisland, Coldstream and Preston are already licensed; Duns if returning are licensable, being enclosed with a seated grandstand and covered terracing. Tweedmouth and Stirling Uni EOS are the 2 clubs with pretty basic grounds - though both are enclosed - but obviously they're in rather unique positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 27 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Most of EOSL clubs are improving their grounds and as referenced in the recent press coverage on Peebles the league has new criteria on enclosed grounds and on working towards licenses - which is sensible, IMO, it's less than LL but more than a roped park. In practice most clubs are upgrading their grounds. Kelty have been mentioned; LTHV (which also covers Tynecastle) have installed a toilet block and catering hut plus are putting up 2 small enclosures in the spring; Heriot-Watt are currently building a 400-seat grandstand; Ormiston are moving to a new enclosed park with a small covered terracing later in the season; Peebles, the last unenclosed ground, are enclosing theirs in the closed season; Eyemouth have finished enclosing theirs and apparently plan to put up cover as the next stage; Leith have just moved to Peffermill and will move back to the new Meadowbank Athletics Arena when completed in 2yrs time; Burntisland, Coldstream and Preston are already licensed; Duns if returning are licensable, being enclosed with a seated grandstand and covered terracing. Tweedmouth and Stirling Uni EOS are the 2 clubs with pretty basic grounds - though both are enclosed - but obviously they're in rather unique positions. take peebles.is that enclosing the ground with a wall or is it instead of a rope round the pitch.And putting up a barrier like most grounds have for advertising boards.or both.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 They're putting up a wooden fence round all 4 sides of the ground... permanent on 3 sides (ends and behind the grandstand) and collapsible on the far side so the cricket can continue using it... to enclose the venue. Suspect it will look similar to Coldstream or Eyemouth. They're then going to rail the pitch but unclear on how many sides; maybe the grandstand side would suffice as it seats a couple of hundred plus there is concrete terracing to its right. There will have to be some kind of access way from the pavilion - maybe similar to what Civil Service Strollers have done. Peebles was supposed to be getting a new 3G venue but it eventually got scrapped as each part of the town it got earmarked for said 'NIMBY: build it somewhere else'. To their credit Peebles Rovers have decided to enclose Whitestone Park - otherwise their place in EOSL could have been in peril in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Che Dail said: That was 4 years ago so there has been plenty time for all clubs to get properly organised and apply to join the league. The LL didn't extend a period of grace last season to LTHV who have been EoS members for years so I can't see why they'd bend the rules for Junior clubs arriving late. The Licensing requirements really aren't that onerous, check out Civil Service Strollers' park as evidence. If SL Junior clubs can't get their ground to that level then maybe their priorities should change i.e. could the playing budget take a hit for a couple of seasons in favour of the long-term benefits? Purely in the interests of getting to where we want to be. Would it really do any harm to anyone? very unlikely and as I said, there appears to have been a grace period when the league started which didn't harm anyone either. Often compromise is the best approach to reaching agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 5 hours ago, Marshmallo said: What are the crowds, I haven't seen any figures? From very few upto few hundred, not anything that would stress two sides of a pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 15 hours ago, Bishoptonbankie said: Wrong about the Bankies hopefully. Does your view mean that you wouldn't favour joining the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 17 hours ago, andy25 said: When did Talbot apply for election to the SPFL ? 1994 - Ross County & Inverness CT were elected to the 2 SPFL vacancies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 14 hours ago, Jambo'ness said: I'm not an official at the club but imo there is no chance Bo'ness will be making the move this summer. Still too many things to sort out and of course, if we don't go, neither will the wee rose. We are VERY interested in doing so but making a half-arsed attempt isn't worth the hassle. We will wait until everything's in place. A sound approach, although you don't need a licence to JOIN the EoSL, so you would have a full 15 months to put everything in place, should you win the EoSL at the first attempt in 2018/19. 14 hours ago, Jambo'ness said: I'm not an official at the club but imo there is no chance Bo'ness will be making the move this summer. Still too many things to sort out and of course, if we don't go, neither will the wee rose. We are VERY interested in doing so but making a half-arsed attempt isn't worth the hassle. We will wait until everything's in place. Also, why is there alleged link (mentioned in several posts) between Linlithgow and Bo'Ness joining the pyramid simultaneously ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 5 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said: Purely in the interests of getting to where we want to be. Would it really do any harm to anyone? very unlikely and as I said, there appears to have been a grace period when the league started which didn't harm anyone either. Often compromise is the best approach to reaching agreements. I think I understand what you're saying - but promoting unlicensed clubs ahead of licensed clubs to the LL would harm the relegated ones who are effectively being asked to step aside for the benefit of the Juniors who have more than likely piled cash into the playing squad over the years chasing 'success' instead of fixing the toilets and putting a fence up - it wouldn't be fair. All these clubs with huge fan-bases, where does the money go? No LL club is going to be sympathetic to the plight of a big Junior side which is poised to take their place in the league without having to invest in their facilities and management.. I'm sure they all want to see the game at this level progress, but there needs to be a level playing field in terms of commitment to decent standards - Junior clubs are generally behind their LL counterparts and from the sounds of it, the current EoS clubs are also making a big effort to improve things because there is a real incentive to do so. Most people would agree that the Lowland League would be greatly enhanced if Linlithgow Rose were in it now, and we can all see it will be better with either Kelty or LTHV in it next season - but you have to respect the structure that has been put in place and do things properly as Kelty have done without any complaints. For the greater good of the semi-pro game, I think the best possible outcome would be for the SJFA to pay the £2k licence application fee to any of its member clubs wishing to join the pyramid and to support and assist those clubs in every possible way before wishing them the very best for the future. The best way to resolve the SoS issue is possibly for all the West clubs to join it, with the support of the SJFA, and try to negotiate a re-structuring of the league set up from within as members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Robert James said: 1994 - Ross County & Inverness CT were elected to the 2 SPFL vacancies. What is your source for this? This link suggests it was Caley Thistle, Ross County, Gala Fairydean, Elgin City and Gretna that applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 6 hours ago, stanley said: What is your source for this? This link suggests it was Caley Thistle, Ross County, Gala Fairydean, Elgin City and Gretna that applied. My understanding as well. When Ferranti/Meadowbank/Livingston joined the league in the 70s I believe the league's first choice was Irvine Meadow who eventually declined to apply. Since then there haven't been any Junior applicants for the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mantis Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 10 hours ago, Robert James said: 1994 - Ross County & Inverness CT were elected to the 2 SPFL vacancies. Nonsense. The five applicants were Caledonian Thistle (not ICT at the time), Ross County, Gretna, Elgin and Gala. The SPFL didn’t exist either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 12 hours ago, Che Dail said: I think I understand what you're saying - but promoting unlicensed clubs ahead of licensed clubs to the LL would harm the relegated ones who are effectively being asked to step aside for the benefit of the Juniors who have more than likely piled cash into the playing squad over the years chasing 'success' instead of fixing the toilets and putting a fence up - it wouldn't be fair. All these clubs with huge fan-bases, where does the money go? No LL club is going to be sympathetic to the plight of a big Junior side which is poised to take their place in the league without having to invest in their facilities and management.. I'm sure they all want to see the game at this level progress, but there needs to be a level playing field in terms of commitment to decent standards - Junior clubs are generally behind their LL counterparts and from the sounds of it, the current EoS clubs are also making a big effort to improve things because there is a real incentive to do so. Most people would agree that the Lowland League would be greatly enhanced if Linlithgow Rose were in it now, and we can all see it will be better with either Kelty or LTHV in it next season - but you have to respect the structure that has been put in place and do things properly as Kelty have done without any complaints. For the greater good of the semi-pro game, I think the best possible outcome would be for the SJFA to pay the £2k licence application fee to any of its member clubs wishing to join the pyramid and to support and assist those clubs in every possible way before wishing them the very best for the future. The best way to resolve the SoS issue is possibly for all the West clubs to join it, with the support of the SJFA, and try to negotiate a re-structuring of the league set up from within as members. What you’re saying I generally agree with, but in the interests of getting Juniors to come on board and fixing the structure into something that is actually fit for the purposes, then some compromises must be made on both sides. Licencing will be the biggest issue concerning Junior clubs, £2k fee to the SFA straight from the start then however much on top to do whatever they need to do to meet the terms. All very do-able for big Junior clubs, but it takes time and money. A licence is largely a paper exercise to suit someone at Hampden, grounds in the West or East Superleagues are already better than many licenced club grounds. As long a clubs begin the process then giving them a 12-18 month window to allow work the be carried out allows a revised structure to be implemented with less resistance, and those licenced clubs out with the current Lowland League can be given priority on entering any new structure eg West and East Lowland League to ensure they are not disadvantaged. I’m pretty sure most of them would decline for reasons I said earlier re Scottish Cup and stay where they currently are. Glasgow Uni and Newton Stewart aren’t going to suddenly be chomping at the bit to play in a West Lowland League. I can’t see any West clubs joining the SOS and I cant see SOS clubs being very happy with an influx of Junior clubs who are night and day from them resource and finance wise. That’s not a resolution, Clydebank are talking EOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Bishoptonbankie said: Just out of interest whats your source for this? You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 On 15/12/2017 at 08:25, Hillonearth said: My understanding as well. When Ferranti/Meadowbank/Livingston joined the league in the 70s I believe the league's first choice was Irvine Meadow who eventually declined to apply. Since then there haven't been any Junior applicants for the league. Check 2000 applicants when Peterhead and Elgin were elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, Robert James said: Check 2000 applicants when Peterhead and Elgin were elected. Annan, Cove, Gala Fairydean, Gretna and Preston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Talbot have never applied for the SFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Robert James said: Check 2000 applicants when Peterhead and Elgin were elected. 3 x Highland League - 3 x EoS League - 1 x Northern League. No Junior applicants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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