North Caledonian League Expansion

[vikingTON]

Get them all in the Scottish Cup and kick the juniors out. 

[Jacksgranda]

3 hours ago, Robert James said:

It is unclear to me whether the Highland League wants a Tier 6 pyramid feeder league. It certainly doesn't appear to be encouraging the creation of one.

There are a couple of ambitious NCL clubs, but the entry requirements for the HFL require floodlights.  It has been confirmed that SFA member club Golspie Sutherland's application for planning permission (a few years ago) was turned down by the council, following objections from some local residents. As far as I know, the club didn't appeal this decision, and it may be worth reapplying as some UK clubs have successfully won planning appeals, on the basis that they can only be used on XX occasions per year, and within certain 'time of use' restrictions.

Tier 6 status would probably further boost the NCL clubs, and also provide a 'safety net' for clubs (eg Fort William, Clach, Lossiemouth, Nairn, Wick, etc) when/if any of the North of Scotland clubs get relegated from the HFL.   These senior clubs have never shown any desire to join the junior ranks, which is why TWO pyramid feeder leagues (NCL and NRJFA) are required, should the PWG get an agreed solution for a northern pyramid. However this isn't helped by the NRJFA's current disinterest in the pyramid. The 'stand off' taken by Banks O'Dee, hasn't encouraged junior clubs to join either.

The SFA hasn't helped in the recent past, as it should have granted Scottish Cup entry to the NCL champion club each year, regardless as to whether or not it is licensed.  This opportunity is given currently to unlicensed club champions in the EoSL, SoSL, the 3 Junior Leagues, the Junior Cup Winners, and the Scottish FA Amateur Cup Winners, each season.

Will the PWG bite the bullet ?

I can't see Lossie or Nairn being happy to go to the NCL.

[Spyro]

42 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I can't see Lossie or Nairn being happy to go to the NCL.

Exactly... the HL are masters at saying what needs to be said to look interested and keep their status, while kicking the can a little further down the road. NOTHING will never change unless forced upon them

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Exactly... the HL are masters at saying what needs to be said to look interested and keep their status, while kicking the can a little further down the road. NOTHING will never change unless forced upon them

What exactly are the Highland league supposed to be doing if no one's applying? They even invited Banks o'Dee.

[Spyro]

11 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

What exactly are the Highland league supposed to be doing if no one's applying? They even invited Banks o'Dee.

BoD tried and were rejected in favour of Formartine, Turriff and Strathspey... once burnt n all that

Plus they refuse to help create a coherent tier 6 for non-licensed teams to use as a stepping stone

[Jimmy Shaker]

The SHFL asked the juniors. They're not interested at this time. 

The SHFL asked the NCL. They're not interested at this time. 

So where do the teams for this Tier 6 league come from?

 

[Jacksgranda]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

The SHFL asked the juniors. They're not interested at this time. 

The SHFL asked the NCL. They're not interested at this time. 

So where do the teams for this Tier 6 league come from?

 

Tayside.

[Spyro]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

The SHFL asked the juniors. They're not interested at this time. 

The SHFL asked the NCL. They're not interested at this time. 

So where do the teams for this Tier 6 league come from?

 

When did this happen? What terms did the HL place on it? Or was it a general half-arsed attempt at ‘testing the water’ to look like they were trying?

It’s something that could easily be organised if the right people, with the right intentions could get together. Like I said, turkeys aren’t going to vote for Xmas... or put forward a viable argument for it. No wonder their advances where rejected by potential tier 6 clubs

Edited July 16, 2019 by Spyro

[welshbairn]

10 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Tayside.

Have any of them applied to join the HL or expressed an interest? I think we have to accept that in the North level 5 is the bottom of the pyramid, below is amateur to all intents and purposes apart from 2 or three exceptions who haven't bothered applying for the vacancy.

[FairWeatherFan]

47 minutes ago, Spyro said:

BoD tried and were rejected in favour of Formartine, Turriff and Strathspey... once burnt n all that

Plus they refuse to help create a coherent tier 6 for non-licensed teams to use as a stepping stone

Formartine applied in August/September and spent the time until the decision actively campaigning to get in. Turriff applied in September/October and were pretty active. Strathspey were a spanner in the works as the won those that wanted to try and balance Highland/Grampian. It was also TEN years ago.

The Highland League and NRJFA sat down together back in November(?). With the NRJFA saying they aren't interested in the pyramid. The Tayside clubs are still having the SJFA represent their interests with trying to get in the Lowland League area. The Highland League has also kept the NCL in the loop around the pyramid. Last year sending a representative to the NCL AGM and supposedly there has been at least one further SFA/HFL/NCL type meeting this past season.

It has been known publicly that the Highland League would create a 2nd Division if they get more than 20 members for years now. They've also engaged with all other existing leagues that would be considered Tier 6 if they signed up to the pyramid.

[Spyro]

43 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Formartine applied in August/September and spent the time until the decision actively campaigning to get in. Turriff applied in September/October and were pretty active. Strathspey were a spanner in the works as the won those that wanted to try and balance Highland/Grampian. It was also TEN years ago.

The Highland League and NRJFA sat down together back in November(?). With the NRJFA saying they aren't interested in the pyramid. The Tayside clubs are still having the SJFA represent their interests with trying to get in the Lowland League area. The Highland League has also kept the NCL in the loop around the pyramid. Last year sending a representative to the NCL AGM and supposedly there has been at least one further SFA/HFL/NCL type meeting this past season.

It has been known publicly that the Highland League would create a 2nd Division if they get more than 20 members for years now. They've also engaged with all other existing leagues that would be considered Tier 6 if they signed up to the pyramid.

But to be one of they 20 members, they must first be licensed. Therefore ruling out most of the teams who would maybe fancy being part of a tier 6...

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Spyro said:

But to be one of they 20 members, they must first be licensed. Therefore ruling out most of the teams who would maybe fancy being part of a tier 6...

How would you make it happen? Get rid of the floodlights rule and fenced off grounds?

Edited July 16, 2019 by welshbairn

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, Spyro said:

But to be one of they 20 members, they must first be licensed. Therefore ruling out most of the teams who would maybe fancy being part of a tier 6...

To be a member of the league yes, to apply no.

There's nothing to stop a club applying without being a Full Member of the SFA. Look at how the Lowland League waited to deal with the promotion/relegation issue until Bonnyrigg had their SFA license confirmed. Or how the Fife FA accepted Hill of Beath and Dundonald on the preliminary basis of them getting their SFA membership.

Also no Tier 6 league requires licensing and the NRJFA said they don't want to be in the pyramid. So which 3 of the 30+ junior teams for the last 5 years have wanted to in the pyramid but were scared off by licensing?

With Montrose Roselea moving to Links Park many threw them in as a candidate to go down the licensing route. Which was shot down by a poster either on the committee or close to the club saying that's not something they are planning for. Part of their reasoning being that they were a small committee, the Highland League would cause them the same issues they had being in the East Region and Montrose is already a small town with a Senior team.

Which, apart from the travel, is probably a similar sentiment shared by about a third of the North Juniors.

1. Buckie Thistle/Buckie Rovers
2. Elgin City/New Elgin
3. Forres Mechanics/Forres Thistle
4. Fraserburgh/Fraserburgh United
5. Inveurie Loco Works/Colony Park
6. Keith/Islavale
7. Montrose/Montrose Roselea
8. Nairn County/Nairn St Ninian
9. Peterhead/Buchanhaven Hearts

Honourable Mention

1. Deveronvale/Deveronside 3 miles apart
2. Strathspey Thistle/Spey Valley United 8 miles apart

[FairWeatherFan]

Going by all the good news on the return to a 10 team league, there seems to be something important overlooked.

Anyone know what's going on with Alness for them to be in doubt this year?

[Robert James]

7 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

I can't see Lossie or Nairn being happy to go to the NCL.

I didn't say these clubs would be "happy".  However, if they were to be relegated from the HFL into tier 6 (if it is ever established.), they would both choose the NCL over the NRJFA., as dictated by historical, geographical, reasons, and also by Football Association loyalty. The NCL would be their 'bolt hole', for a root back to the HFL, when their situation improves. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Robert James
typo error

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Going by all the good news on the return to a 10 team league, there seems to be something important overlooked.

Anyone know what's going on with Alness for them to be in doubt this year?

A new North Caledonian FA Media Statement has been issued tonight, stating that Alness United will not be competing in league or cup matches during 2019/20.  They will however retain their full NCA membership, and intend to return to the NCL as soon as possible.

No reason is given, but this decision may be related to their ground situation (?)

A sad loss for next season.

 

 

[Jacksgranda]

7 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

I can't see Lossie or Nairn being happy to go to the NCL.

 

17 minutes ago, Robert James said:

I didn't say these clubs would be "happy".  However, if they were to be relegated from the HFL into tier 6 (if it is ever established.), they would both choose the NCL over the NRJFA., as dictated by historical, geographical, reasons, and also by Football Association loyalty. The NCL would be their 'bolt hole', for a root back to the HFL, when their situation improves. 

Nairn and Lossiemouth have absolutely no geographical or historical reason to join the NCL.

[Cyclizine]

20 minutes ago, Robert James said:

I didn't say these clubs would be "happy".  However, if they were to be relegated from the HFL into tier 6 (if it is ever established.), they would both choose the NCL over the NRJFA., as dictated by historical, geographical, reasons, and also by Football Association loyalty. The NCL would be their 'bolt hole', for a root back to the HFL, when their situation improves. 

Please stop trying to pass your opinions off as facts. We are nowhere near having any structure below the Highland League.

[Robert James]

21 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

 

Nairn and Lossiemouth have absolutely no geographical or historical reason to join the NCL.

Really ?   They have both participated in the NCL/NCA  competitions on occasions in recent years, and please remind me (in case I am mistaken), which Association are these two clubs currently members of ?

 

15 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

Please stop trying to pass your opinions off as facts. We are nowhere near having any structure below the Highland League.

I fully agree......... we are nowhere near having any structure below the Highland League.  Did you read my post a day or so ago, about the PWG, and the task it faces over the next 12 months. These were questions, not facts.

 However, I wish my views on this particular  subject, were indeed facts, but unfortunately they aren't.   If you read my 2 posts (during the last 2 days) re Bonar Bridge (joining the NCL) and Alness United (not participating) in 2019/20, I hope you will accept, are facts,  rather than  my views. 

Challenging any of my views is an essential part of P&B, for you and  for all posters. However, trying to suppress my views because you don't agree with them, is not  I would suggest,  acceptable.  Otherwise why have P&B ?

[Cyclizine]

6 hours ago, Robert James said:

Challenging any of my views is an essential part of P&B, for you and  for all posters. However, trying to suppress my views because you don't agree with them, is not  I would suggest,  acceptable.  Otherwise why have P&B ?

Grow up. I'm not suppressing your views. You have a habit of posting long-winded posts (like the above) that say nothing that we don't already know, ask questions that have already been answered or pass your opinions off as fact.

We all know about the issues with developing a working pyramid in the North. Perhaps the NCL will be involved. Perhaps something else will appear. Perhaps nothing will ever happen.

However, you coming out with comments like "Nairn and Lossie would get relegated to the NCL" is pure unsubstantiated opinion.

I don't claim to be an expert on North football, but I live up here, watch a lot of it and know a lot of people in the game: senior, junior and amateur (and welfare). I've called you out before for unsubstantiated statements that you've rowed back from. I'm not trying to stifle any debate but clarify it.