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North Caledonian League Expansion


Robert James

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3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It's a tiny village by the looks of it when I checked it out hoping Clach would get drawn against them in the North Cup. They might get support from Thurso and Dounreay though.

Tiny is true, must be less than 1000 population. Thurso at the Dammies have a half decent setup themselves, as @Robert James has mentioned. Again, as with most of the Far North, it's a question of where the playing quality would come from.

 

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16 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

Tiny is true, must be less than 1000 population. Thurso at the Dammies have a half decent setup themselves, as @Robert James has mentioned. Again, as with most of the Far North, it's a question of where the playing quality would come from.

 

Still a couple of thousand workers decommissioning  Dounreay but I doubt they'd relish a midweek evening away game in Fraserburgh. I think it would be better to strengthen the North Caledonian League with clubs like Inverness City (if they can be saved) and some SFA funding from the huuuuuge new TV deal to subsidise island teams' travel. If Rugby can do it with far less money, why can't Football?

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6 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

Tiny is true, must be less than 1000 population. Thurso at the Dammies have a half decent setup themselves, as @Robert James has mentioned. Again, as with most of the Far North, it's a question of where the playing quality would come from.

 

Islanders, Orkney FC (new NCL champions) have a strong team, but without a benefactor couldn't sustain playing 30+ HFL games per season.

Still waiting to hear if Balintore FC are rejoining the NCL for 2018/19, as per the statement of intent, a few months ago.

Inverness City were former members of the NCL before 'going junior'. The club may be best served by returning to the NCL whilst they bring Kirkhill up to North Region Super League standard, rather than going into abeyance.

Edited by Robert James
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10 hours ago, Robert James said:

Inverness City were former members of the NCL before 'going junior'. The club may be best served by returning to the NCL whilst they bring Kirkhill up to North Region Super League standard, rather than going into abeyance.

If that came to pass then we'd have the bizarre situation of two Inverness based teams in the same league, neither of whom actually play in Inverness...

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20 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Still a couple of thousand workers decommissioning  Dounreay but I doubt they'd relish a midweek evening away game in Fraserburgh. I think it would be better to strengthen the North Caledonian League with clubs like Inverness City (if they can be saved) and some SFA funding from the huuuuuge new TV deal to subsidise island teams' travel. If Rugby can do it with far less money, why can't Football?

... because they aren't interested, unfortunately. Even if you don't consider SPFL cash, it could be buttons to SFA - which turns over comfortably north of £30M per annum - to subsidise travel to Argyll and the isles. I take my hat off to Orkney for fulfilling their NCL commitments and Shetland and Lewis & Harris for the cups they enter, which AFAIA are entirely by their own efforts.

If you go down to the Amateur sub-forum there is a thread from spring 2016 on the football community of Arran wanting to put a team into Ayrshire AFA. (Arran has a pirate league of 6 clubs but there's no opportunities for 'proper' football beyond this). It has a population of about 5,000 plus Brodick is served by regular ferries from Ardrossan costing about £7.50 return for a foot passenger - the sailing takes under 1 hour. Arran is in the North Ayrshire unitary authority. They would have provided a minibus to take clubs from the ferry terminal to the park 3 miles away at Lamlash. Even within amateur football it was hardly a groundbreaking idea as Rothesay Brandane from Bute, and Dunoon Amateurs (to which visiting clubs presumably use the ferry), both play in mainland leagues. However it met opposition and didn't happen: in part due to the fares. Yet it would have cost a couple of thousand £ to buy every visiting club 20 return ferry tickets.

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3 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

.If you go down to the Amateur sub-forum there is a thread from spring 2016 on the football community of Arran wanting to put a team into Ayrshire AFA. (Arran has a pirate league of 6 clubs but there's no opportunities for 'proper' football beyond this). It has a population of about 5,000 plus Brodick is served by regular ferries from Ardrossan costing about £7.50 return for a foot passenger - the sailing takes under 1 hour. Arran is in the North Ayrshire unitary authority. They would have provided a minibus to take clubs from the ferry terminal to the park 3 miles away at Lamlash. Even within amateur football it was hardly a groundbreaking idea as Rothesay Brandane from Bute, and Dunoon Amateurs (to which visiting clubs presumably use the ferry), both play in mainland leagues. However it met opposition and didn't happen: in part due to the fares. Yet it would have cost a couple of thousand £ to buy every visiting club 20 return ferry tickets.

Were they not trying to join the famously parochial Ayrshire AFA though?

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I don’t understand the mentality that says there isn’t the interest in joining the HFL so there can’t be a multi-division Highland League.

If that is the case, what is the point of most of the teams in League 1 and League 2? They’re never going to reach the Premier League and even if they did they wouldn’t be allowed in because their grounds don’t meet the criteria.

However, it didn’t stop Brechin having a tilt at the Championship. Or Dumbarton.

The North (and Tayside) Juniors don’t have to meet HFL standards to begin with, they can evolve over time and they will. As long as the route is available it will attract attention and ambitious people. If it isn’t, these clubs will continue to petrify or even moulder.

They will also, in the short term, provide somewhere for the existing licensed clubs outwith the HFL to play.

Frankly, the HFL would benefit hugely with clubs from Angus, Dundee & Perth and frankly some of the existing HFL clubs would benefit from being in a league they could compete in rather than being cannon fodder.

Do it. DO IT!

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28 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

I don’t understand the mentality that says there isn’t the interest in joining the HFL so there can’t be a multi-division Highland League.

 

If that is the case, what is the point of most of the teams in League 1 and League 2? They’re never going to reach the Premier League and even if they did they wouldn’t be allowed in because their grounds don’t meet the criteria.

 

However, it didn’t stop Brechin having a tilt at the Championship. Or Dumbarton.

 

The North (and Tayside) Juniors don’t have to meet HFL standards to begin with, they can evolve over time and they will. As long as the route is available it will attract attention and ambitious people. If it isn’t, these clubs will continue to petrify or even moulder.

They will also, in the short term, provide somewhere for the existing licensed clubs outwith the HFL to play.

 

Frankly, the HFL would benefit hugely with clubs from Angus, Dundee & Perth and frankly some of the existing HFL clubs would benefit from being in a league they could compete in rather than being cannon fodder.

Do it. DO IT!

 

 

 

I don't think anyone's against multiple HFL tiers or a North of Scotland League (although that name's taken). As it stands, teams must have a licence to join the HFL. Levels below wouldn't necessarily need that. It's still a chicken-and-egg situation though.

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I'd say there is interest. You just have to look at the SJFA Questionnaire where the majority of North Region clubs voted in favour of joining the current pyramid. It's just that there isn't a league that's willing to take the lead in the Highland area in the same way that the Lowland had the SoS/EoS.

The North Caledonian would be too stretched geographically and no Grampian or Tayside area team would likely sign up for it due to the costs. The Juniors don't won't to breakaway from their association and the Highland League don't want to relegate themselves into a weaker division if they don't have to.

If the Highland League put out the same message for aiding a Highland League 2/NoSFL, that the EoS supposedly have done in relation to a start up WoS. I'm sure there would be candidates that would quite happily sign up, work on getting licenced and eventually promoted in the Highland League.

EDIT: Out of curiosity how many of the current North Juniors compare infrastructure wise to Strathspey, Turriff & Formartine when they entered the Highland in 2009? When I had a quick scan of nonleaguescotland there were maybe 8-9 that were listed as having floodlights which tends to be seen the major stumbling for joining the Highland, but there must be more than that who could cover the basics for a licence.

Edited by FairWeatherFan
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When Strathspey applied, their facilities were very basic. Mesh fence around the outside, perhaps not even fully enclosed? A big field with the pitch railed off. Very similar to most North clubs. To be fair, the major changes have been the lights and the stand, that apart it was pretty similar.

2laveav.jpg

2wmgnkz.jpg
I forget who took these unfortunately, out the NLS archives. 

The main issue in the North Region re: Entry is, apart from lights, cover. Basically none in the top division (BoD apart) have any.

Edited by cmontheloknow
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I think I might have taken them. I went down for the day to see what their set-up looked like and was near run out of town by the chairman who didn’t want any more ‘fucking press nosing about the place’ as they’d had problems with the neighbours over putting the perimeter fence up. He was sound once I said I wasn’t from the fourth estate, but their neighbours seem to be dicks. I’m sure one fell out with another because the town ambulance is parked outside their house or something.

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3 hours ago, Jimmy Shaker said:

I think I might have taken them. I went down for the day to see what their set-up looked like and was near run out of town by the chairman who didn’t want any more ‘fucking press nosing about the place’ as they’d had problems with the neighbours over putting the perimeter fence up. He was sound once I said I wasn’t from the fourth estate, but their neighbours seem to be dicks. I’m sure one fell out with another because the town ambulance is parked outside their house or something.

Could be right but they're from well before the Highland entry though, I had them on NLS for years before the new stand etc... I'm actually thinking Burnieman on one of his northern sojourns...? Unfortunately I removed them when the new pics superceded them.

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I mind going to see them lose to Cove in the first season. At that time I recall just a chicken wire fence and the tiny stand. I was on nights shifts and it was a really hot day and I had a power nap during the second half... I'm sure I took a photo or two, but no idea where they are.

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On 11/05/2018 at 22:58, Cyclizine said:

I mind going to see them lose to Cove in the first season. At that time I recall just a chicken wire fence and the tiny stand. I was on nights shifts and it was a really hot day and I had a power nap during the second half... I'm sure I took a photo or two, but no idea where they are.

Strathspey's ground has improved significantly, although it took the club about 4 years to get licensed. Worth a visit. 

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On 10/05/2018 at 00:28, Robert James said:

Islanders, Orkney FC (new NCL champions) have a strong team, but without a benefactor couldn't sustain playing 30+ HFL games per season.

Still waiting to hear if Balintore FC are rejoining the NCL for 2018/19, as per the statement of intent, a few months ago.

Inverness City were former members of the NCL before 'going junior'. The club may be best served by returning to the NCL whilst they bring Kirkhill up to North Region Super League standard, rather than going into abeyance.

Gone into abeyance for a year, the maximum allowed. If they can't raise the money quickly enough to sort out Kirkhill by next year I think they'll fold permanently. They would still need a ground to play in the NCL.

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15 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Gone into abeyance for a year, the maximum allowed. If they can't raise the money quickly enough to sort out Kirkhill by next year I think they'll fold permanently. They would still need a ground to play in the NCL.

Ground requirements are different in the NCL than they are in the North Super League

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Just now, Robert James said:

Ground requirements are different in the NCL than they are in the North Super League

I know, but they'd still have to find and fund a pitch while trying to sort Kirkhill out. Inverness Athletic ended up having to move to Muir of Ord.

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Just now, welshbairn said:

I know, but they'd still have to find and fund a pitch while trying to sort Kirkhill out. Inverness Athletic ended up having to move to Muir of Ord.

I didn't realise that Kirkhill wasn't ready for any level of football. However, I did mention a temporary return to North Kessock as a possibility ?

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7 minutes ago, Robert James said:

I didn't realise that Kirkhill wasn't ready for any level of football. However, I did mention a temporary return to North Kessock as a possibility ?

Not sure of the current situation at North Kessock, but here's a fun background on how they originally got the pitch. :lol:

https://www.north-star-news.co.uk/News/Ross-team-turfed-out-of-home-in-swearing-row-3185.htm

P.S. I think North Kessock FC got the pitch back.

Edited by welshbairn
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8 minutes ago, Snafu said:

A real shame. The ambition of the club was to play in the most competitive league that an amateur club from Inverness could possibly reach, they succeeded for a time but it wasn't sustainable. A lot will depend on the people who run the club and on whether they feel the need to re start from scratch in the NCL. I don't think there are many from the original committee that were there the last time the club played in the NCL, so not sure whether they might want to rejoin the Juniors in the future.

It is possible they could return under a new name. Sad if they lose the Inverness City name but if they do change I think Kirkhill Wanderers might be a suitable tribute within a new name, Wanderers being a reference to the club's nomadic past.

 

Hopefully they'll get a bit of support from Beauly, don't think they have an adult team at the moment. Doubt many supporters apart from relatives will bother travelling out, there were few enough as it was. I like your name change :lol:. It's clear they're never going to get backing for a permanent home in Inverness.

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