Jump to content

Margaret Fleming


Recommended Posts

23 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

I've been on a High Court Jury. Most people in there thought that they were there to decide whether the defendant is guilty, not to decide whether the defendant has been proven guilty. I assume that goes for just about every case.

That's a subtle but important distinction.

You're probably right in what you're saying, but of course unless directed by a judge, the idea of 'proven beyond reasonable doubt' introduces subjectivity.

I've never been on a jury, but was called for duty once, before being balloted out.  Even during that process though, I've got to say I was a bit horrified by many of those also in the hat.  Some joked openly about the pints they'd sunk at lunchtime, while others were relaxed about displaying their prejudices regarding the group the defendant came from.  It all left me a bit aghast about the whole bloody process.

Having said all that though, I'm sure a panel of judges would have struggled to convict those involved in this case, and despite the contradictions and hypocrisy Involved, I'm therefore glad that a flawed jury got to rule here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's a subtle but important distinction.

You're probably right in what you're saying, but of course unless directed by a judge, the idea of 'proven beyond reasonable doubt' introduces subjectivity.

I've never been on a jury, but was called for duty once, before being balloted out.  Even during that process though, I've got to say I was a bit horrified by many of those also in the hat.  Some joked openly about the pints they'd sunk at lunchtime, while others were relaxed about displaying their prejudices regarding the group the defendant came from.  It all left me a bit aghast about the whole bloody process.

Having said all that though, I'm sure a panel of judges would have struggled to convict those involved in this case, and despite the contradictions and hypocrisy Involved, I'm therefore glad that a flawed jury got to rule here. 

I'll get the tin foil hat on, but I think the 'justice system' wants the person put away if it has gone that far. Therefore the judge deliberately advises the jury as little as possible about anything.  I was amazed at how much we were just left to it. Especially given the extreme lack of evidence.

Once you are in the dock, the odds are massively stacked against you IMO.

On the plus side, lunch was fucking excellent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

.

I've never been on a jury, but was called for duty once, before being balloted out.  Even during that process though, I've got to say I was a bit horrified by many of those also in the hat.  Some joked openly about the pints they'd sunk at lunchtime, while others were relaxed about displaying their prejudices regarding the group the defendant came from.  It all left me a bit aghast about the whole bloody process.

 

It needs remembered Juries are selected basically from a random selection of the public and that also the general  public is largely made up of c***s.  Can anyone seriously look round a room and think ‘yea I trust this mob to decide if I’d be going to jail for 20 years?’   

Edited by parsforlife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

It needs remembered Juries are selected basically from a random selection of the public and that also the general  public is largely made up of c***s.  Can anyone seriously look round a room and think ‘yea I trust this mob to decide if I’d be going to jail for 20 years?’   

Indeed.

I find myself in agreement with a principle which requires trial by a group of peers, but alarmed by the reality of it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

I'll get the tin foil hat on, but I think the 'justice system' wants the person put away if it has gone that far. Therefore the judge deliberately advises the jury as little as possible about anything.  I was amazed at how much we were just left to it. Especially given the extreme lack of evidence.

Once you are in the dock, the odds are massively stacked against you IMO.

On the plus side, lunch was fucking excellent.

If you got the choice of a jury or judge only trial, which would you choose? 

A. If you're guilty.

B. If you're not guilty.

Having had very little experience of the Criminal Justice system, and being white, Scottish and fairly articulate, think I'd go:

A. Jury

B. Judge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

If you got the choice of a jury or judge only trial, which would you choose? 

A. If you're guilty.

B. If you're not guilty.

Having had very little experience of the Criminal Justice system, and being white, Scottish and fairly articulate, think I'd go:

A. Jury

B. Judge

You'd be right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Flybhoy said:

He was guilty of possession of cannabis and cocaine but absolutely 100% not guilty of supplying it, the police inferred he was a dealer and charged him with such, a sentence that carries a custodial sentence almost every time as opposed to a fine and a bit of community service at most for possession, which is precisely the point I'm making about 'No Comment' they trumped up a charge to a very serious one because he naively said he smokes weed and snorts cocaine on occasions with his mates, he's no angel the lad but I made mistakes like that at his age and he certainly is no Pablo Escobar like the police tried to portray him as, thankfully his lawyer did his job in court and the supply charge was dropped and he got a fine for the possession but, he could well have done prison time for naively answering a loaded question with a hidden subtext. 

So he didn't go down the 'no comment' route and he didn't end up getting done with it then? That's exactly what I'm saying. If he had chosen to refuse the questions he may well have found himself getting convicted. 

Also, in no way does dealing almost always end up in getting the jail. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Dee Man said:

This is all true but what is also true is that the only people who ever reply "no comment" are guilty parties. If you are innocent and tell the truth then it is literally impossible to incriminate yourself. 

This is just incorrect. There’s a plethora of false confession cases to show that the police can manipulate innocent people into confessing or saying things that would falsely incriminate them.

14 hours ago, Dee Man said:

If I was a juror and they repeatedly refused to comment and I didn't like their face, that would be good enough for me to send them down. 

I’m sure this is a joke but unfortunately it’s the genuine reality for a lot of the general public who end up on a jury, and why it’s so terrifying to think of being falsely accused of something serious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And how do you think Pablo started, ffs?


f**k knows mate, I'd ask him but he's pan breed.


No he isn’t. He’s working as a gangmaster and recruiting Polish agricultural workers to pick strawberries near Invergowrie.



Going back to the Margaret Fleming case - I know a demolition order was served on Cairney’s house in 2017, but has it actually been demolished yet?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

 

 

 


No he isn’t. He’s working as a gangmaster and recruiting Polish agricultural workers to pick strawberries near Invergowrie.



Going back to the Margaret Fleming case - I know a demolition order was served on Cairney’s house in 2017, but has it actually been demolished yet?

 

 

 

Yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

This is just incorrect. There’s a plethora of false confession cases to show that the police can manipulate innocent people into confessing or saying things that would falsely incriminate them.

A false confession is completely different from an innocent person telling a true version of events. 

The same applies to an interrogator manipulating you into saying something that didn't happen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who commits murder and steals that amount of money and gets a life sentence with only a minimum sentence of only 14 year WTF was that all about?   He will die inside but hopefully the Scottish Government will get the law changed and  she will have to tell what really happened before they let her out

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The defence lawyer for Cairney is such a smug wee c**t, every time he pauses and does that face after a witness answers a question should result in a swift slap.
He also sounded like Chic Young so I couldn't take him seriously at all although he was up against it having to defend an arsehole.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The defence lawyer for Cairney is such a smug wee c**t, every time he pauses and does that face after a witness answers a question should result in a swift slap.
When he did his summing up rather than tear a pretty flimsy prosecution case to tatters he rambled on about 12 Angry Men and Henry Fonda. And what was with the script that he carried his laptop over to the stand when he went to question a witness.
Him getting telt by the English Teacher was superb.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The look in the lawyers face when Cairney was giving evidence was a picture. He may as well have mouthed “for fucks sake”
He's obviously been advised, quite rightly, to say nothing but was he was convinced that he could destroy the prosecutor by being a smart arse. The prosecutor must have been absolutely delighted when he took the stand.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, 8MileBU said:

 

 

 


No he isn’t. He’s working as a gangmaster and recruiting Polish agricultural workers to pick strawberries near Invergowrie.



Going back to the Margaret Fleming case - I know a demolition order was served on Cairney’s house in 2017, but has it actually been demolished yet?

 

 

 

To add to this my uncle live there and said he was surprised anyone lived in it as it was as good as delerict.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/01/2020 at 09:44, RH33 said:

Unless info, the female DI was SOC officer when I had reason to go to police. 

 

8 minutes ago, RH33 said:

To add to this my uncle live there and said he was surprised anyone lived in it as it was as good as delerict.

Anything you want to confess or are you happy to let those two innocent halfwits rot in their cells you monster?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...