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      Pie and Bovril Nostalgia Mobile Phone Cases!   12/09/18

      We are delighted to have partnered up with Nostalgia Cases to offer a huge range of fantastic Scottish Football phone cases to our visitors. These high quality cases are available in a range of retro and up to date designs and there variations available for all Premiership, Championship and League 1 clubs as well as four of the League 2 teams. Within each club there are a range of choices. You'll find it difficult to choose! This is an Edinburgh based start-up, and they also provide a custom design service so if there is a kit you don't see that you'd love for your phone you can get in touch with them and they'll add it to their range. Naturally there is a HUGE support for all the major phone manufacturers and models and what's more delivery in the UK is completely FREE. What's even better is that Pie and Bovril users can get 10% off their order using the coupon code PIEANDBOV Take a look and browse the full range for your favourite club by clicking through to the website below. https://bit.ly/2M5laZs

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3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

I'm sure it didn't but North Berwick has every right to do that if it wishes. 

They don't. If they declared independence the British and Scottish Government would ignore its, as would the UN. There is no such thing as a right to self determination for bits of an existing state.

Edited by welshbairn

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What about Gullane?


Having to take my passport for a walk on the beach. A shite state of affairs.

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2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

If they declared independence the British and Scottish Government would ignore it, as would the UN.

If North Berwick voted for independence in a free and fair plebiscite then it certainly wouldn't be ignored.

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11 hours ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

And the logic behind this is?

It's quite simple - the EU membership is not a majority vote, each state has a veto over enlargement (national parliamentary ratification of the Treaty) and Spain would veto it without hesitation.

Quote

The EU operates comprehensive approval procedures that ensure new members are admitted only when they can demonstrate they will be able to play their part fully as members, namely by:

  • complying with all the EU's standards and rules
  • having the consent of the EU institutions and EU member states
  • having the consent of their citizens – as expressed through approval in their national parliament or by referendum.

 

Edited by strichener

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15 minutes ago, strichener said:

It's quite simple - the EU membership is not a majority vote, each state has a veto over enlargement (national parliamentary ratification of the Treaty) and Spain would veto it without hesitation.

 

 The Castillians cannot prevent the Catalans from becoming independent. As Juncker says, the EU will respect that independence.

Given that Catalonia is currently in the EU they could attempt to remain so under Article 48 of the EU Treaty. The Castillians would have no veto on that. 

Edited by Tibbermoresaint
Clarity

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28 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

 The Castillians cannot prevent the Catalans from becoming independent. As Juncker says, the EU will respect that independence.

Given that Catalonia is currently in the EU they could attempt to remain so under Article 48 of the EU Treaty. The Castillians would have no veto on that. 

The EU can only respect that independence if the members respect it.  Your article 48 argument does not stand up to any scrutiny for multiple reasons:

1. Treaty amendments under Article 48 still require ratification by ALL member states or need to be referred back to the Council.
2. Article 48 is in place for minor treaty amendments which the admittance of a new member state would be difficult to argue meets this criteria given that it would still require to meet all treaty obligations as a new state.
3. Amendments under Article 48 has to be submitted by a member state which Catalonia would not yet be.
 

Even the Scottish government admitted that it would require the assistance of the UK, the EU and the institutions to gain entry to the EU and this was on the outcome of an agreed referendum.  I state with confidence that if Catalonia votes for independence and declares UDI off the back of this vote that there will be no formal recognition from the EU.

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9 minutes ago, strichener said:

I state with confidence that if Catalonia votes for independence and declares UDI off the back of this vote that there will be no formal recognition from the EU.

The EU is pragmatic. To deny that Catalonia is independent when the facts state otherwise would be a nonsense. I disagree with you but I accept that there may be a period of waiting and seeing. 

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14 hours ago, welshbairn said:

There is no such thing as a right to self determination for bits of an existing state.

Seeing as everywhere is a bit of an existing state (aside from a couple of exceptions like Halaib) you're saying that nowhere has a right to self determination.

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I can't see why Spain would suddenly acquiesce and allow Catalonia EU entry barring significant civil unrest. The UK self-owning with Brexit means it's not really a concern for us anymore if we don't shitebag next time but I would be amazed if Spain weren't completely intransigent in the event of Catalonian secession.

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Just now, DiegoDiego said:

Seeing as everywhere is a bit of an existing state (aside from a couple of exceptions like Halaib) you're saying that nowhere has a right to self determination.

The UN charter was about colonies seeking independence from their European rulers. There is no such thing as a universal right to self determination, it would be impossible to enforce, and undesirable in many cases. What if the City of London declared itself independent to avoid paying taxes?

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3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Repeating the lie that there is no universal right to self-determination does not make it true.

Repeating an unenforceable mantra does not make it any less meaningless.

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On 13/09/2017 at 23:39, Shades75 said:

The fucking idiot has tried to clean up his grammar, punctuation and inappropriate use of capitalisation.

He's failed badly on all three, whilst using the same sentence patterns as before and all of the same biases.

An utterly tragic individual.

I reckon he'll last around a week this time before having a meltdown or letting his insular thinking betray him.

You reckon wrong, I'm not this mcspreader you seem to have a beef with. What's up did he disagree with you on something?

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