TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 So, I see an article about this once every few days or so and it keeps getting more and more bizarre. WTF is Spain's government doing? Soldiers in cruise ships in the bay? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Gone a bit quiet last couple of days. Are we still expecting referendum to take place? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Capital Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I see some of the SNP Youth group have flown to Barcelona to campaign for independence. Potential game changer here lads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Speaking of game changers..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Spain planning to have police at polling stations on Sunday to prevent people voting.This is just appalling - it's Francoesque tactics of the worst kind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Do Spain not realise how much worse this is going to make everything for them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Spain planning to have police at polling stations on Sunday to prevent people voting. This is just appalling - it's Francoesque tactics of the worst kind. There should be a version of Godwin's law for mentioning Franco every time Spanish disagreements arise. They were still fighting Franco in Madrid long after the Civil War ceased in Barcelona. It's an illegal referendum, No voters won't take part as it's unconstitutional, so it's meaningless. P.S. "it's Francoesque tactics of the worst kind." I'd have said those were mass murder rather than having police at polling stations tbh. Edited September 27, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Preventing people from taking part in a democratic vote by sending in police to bully and intimidate is absolutely Fascist tactics. Not sure what you're on about TBH. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said: Preventing people from taking part in a democratic vote by sending in police to bully and intimidate is absolutely Fascist tactics. Not sure what you're on about TBH. What's democratic about it? If the SNP had called a referendum without the Edinburgh agreement Unionists would have dismissed it as an unconstitutional stunt and would not have taken part. The results of whatever may take place cannot be taken seriously as a representative poll of the people of Catalonia. Edited September 27, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Most people in Catalonia want a referendum. Denying them the right to do so is twattish Fascist nonsense.See also Turkey with the Kurds. Also behaving like c***s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The people organising this poll say they'll pull Catalonia out of Spain two days after a Yes vote which they're guaranteed as No voters won't be taking part. Most people in Catalonia want to stay in Spain. Erdogan is certainly a c**t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 So, when are they supposed to vote? If Spain lets them have a vote, they may well vote no and nobody will be slagging Spain off. Denying them the right to vote, or even being willing to discuss the terms of a vote, is Fascist behaviour.Maybe Spain need to wonder why so many people that they would like to force to be "Spanish" don't want to be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The people organising this poll say they'll pull Catalonia out of Spain two days after a Yes vote which they're guaranteed as No voters won't be taking part. Most people in Catalonia want to stay in Spain. Erdogan is certainly a c**t. If "most people in Catalonia want to stay in Spain" why does Madrid not just let the vote go ahead and encourage No voters to get to the polls?The way they are acting suggests that they know they would lose the vote. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Holding a poll for whether Catalonians want a referendum on independence or not would be the way to go imo. If they got a positive result it would be much more difficult for the rest of Spain to rule it out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Todders said: If "most people in Catalonia want to stay in Spain" why does Madrid not just let the vote go ahead and encourage No voters to get to the polls? Creates a precedent. It's not like the UK. Spain could end up like 16th Century Italy. Edited September 27, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, welshbairn said: The people organising this poll say they'll pull Catalonia out of Spain two days after a Yes vote which they're guaranteed as No voters won't be taking part. Most people in Catalonia want to stay in Spain. Erdogan is certainly a c**t. How can no voters be voters if they don't vote? In elections, referenda etc... these are abstentions. Im not sure how those that abstain can claim a de facto victory in a vote that they don't vote in. If a people are not allowed to make a representation of their will, by a binary vote, as to whether they would like to self-govern or be represented by a minority in a collective government then that seems to me to be repression. The tactics of the Spanish government are consistent with inhibiting a free and democratic vote. I'm not sure, unless one is at odds with democracy, how that can be defended righteously. Edited September 27, 2017 by Shades75 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The Spanish government have made a proper c**t of this. They could have negotiated and then fought the referendum on their own terms. Tell the Catalans that they wouldn't get their pensions and a last minute El Vow on the front page of the Daily Recordio. Job done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Holding a poll for whether Catalonians want a referendum on independence or not would be the way to go imo. If they got a positive result it would be much more difficult for the rest of Spain to rule it out. Lovely.Except that Spain wouldn't allow such a vote to take place. Because they're Francoite twats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Creates a precedent. It's not like the UK. Spain could end up like 16th Century Italy. Aye just imagine setting a precedent of allowing a democratic vote. Heaven forbid! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Shades75 said: How can no voters be voters if they don't vote? In elections, referenda etc... these are abstentions. Im not sure how those that abstain can claim a de facto victory in a vote that they don't vote in. If a people are not allowed to make a representation of their will, by a binary vote, as to whether they would like to self-govern or be represented by a minority in a collective government then that seems to me to be repression. The tactics of the Spanish government are consistent with inhibiting a free and democratic vote. I'm not sure, unless one is at odds with democracy, how that can be defended righteously. Democracies rely on institutions, constitutions and the rule of law to function. If Catalonians want a referendum on independence they have to persuade the rest of Spain to allow it. Same as happened for Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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