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bluedragon

Junior Internationals – questions, help, clarification, etc.

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We are just about to finish Version 3 of a record of 405 matches (Internationals and other games) played by Junior Scotland from 1889. Can anyone help with some details of four matches against Junior clubs? They are:

22 October 1995 v Camelon Juniors at Carmuirs Park, Camelon (Camelon Juniors FC 75th anniversary) - Junior Scotland XI that took the field (we have the squad), score and scorers.

23 March 2003   v Fauldhouse United - Junior Scotland team, score, scorers and venue.

13 April 2003 v Pollok - Junior Scotland team, score, scorers and venue.

27 February 2005 v Petershill at Petershill Park, Glasgow – Junior Scotland XI that took the field (we have the squad), score and scorers.

Thank you.

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Version 3 is now available for general download.

Because of some hosting issues I have created a new site that will hopefully contain as much Junior content as possible and this will host the Database.

The new site's address is...

Scottish Junior Football History

with the link to the excel spreadsheet.

Thanks again to Douglas and Tom for creating such a comprehensive record and for allowing me to host it.

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On 28/08/2017 at 19:57, Karl Berg said:

Norrie Brown played for the Rose around that time.  As you say I've seen Norrie often at Linlithgow as linesman, he's also refereed my son at U13/14 level.

Would that be the same Norrie Brown who played for Norwich City youths in 1974 then went to Norway before spending brief periods at Dundee and Meadowbank Thistle in 1978-79?  Any info on that Norrie Brown's career would be much appreciated!!!

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7 hours ago, Saints1921 said:

Would that be the same Norrie Brown who played for Norwich City youths in 1974 then went to Norway before spending brief periods at Dundee and Meadowbank Thistle in 1978-79?  Any info on that Norrie Brown's career would be much appreciated!!!

I’m almost certain they were different players, but will let others who know better confirm. 

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1 hour ago, Karl Berg said:

I’m almost certain they were different players, but will let others who know better confirm. 

Many thanks, much appreciated.  I'll maybe ask on the Linlithgow thread just in case.  Cheers again, DG

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On 21/02/2019 at 20:35, Saints1921 said:

Many thanks, much appreciated.  I'll maybe ask on the Linlithgow thread just in case.  Cheers again, DG

The Linlithgow Rose player is Norman James Brown (dob 23 July 1950) and the player you have mentioned I am fairly sure is Norman George Brown (dob 25 October 1957). 

I hope this helps.

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6 hours ago, bluedragon said:

The Linlithgow Rose player is Norman James Brown (dob 23 July 1950) and the player you have mentioned I am fairly sure is Norman George Brown (dob 25 October 1957). 

I hope this helps.

Brilliant work, many thanks Blue Dragon!!!  Don't suppose you know what happened to N. G. Brown after he left Meadowbank?  Thanks again, DG

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1 hour ago, Saints1921 said:

Brilliant work, many thanks Blue Dragon!!!  Don't suppose you know what happened to N. G. Brown after he left Meadowbank?  Thanks again, DG

I am  sorry I do not have much more.

Norman George Brown was born in Falkirk on 25 October 1957. It appears that he may have been on an S Form with Hibernian. He played for Grangemouth International Boys Club. He joined Coventry City in August 1974 it then goes a bit hazy because a Norman Brown of Norwich City was a Scotland Under-18 trialist in 1975/76. Is this the same player? The next I have is that he played one league game for Dundee in the 1978/79 season after playing in Norway. I am afraid I do not have him playing for Meadowbank Thistle or anything after that. 

There were three Norrie Browns playing around the same time but your player is slightly younger than the other two. I believe that the Linlithgow Rose player was a Pumpherston player in 1969/70 before signing for Rose in August 1974. The other one came from Paisley and is older.

I am sorry I cannot help further but I hope others might be able to help.

Edited by bluedragon

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1 hour ago, bluedragon said:

I am  sorry I do not have much more.

Norman George Brown was born in Falkirk on 25 October 1957. It appears that he may have been on an S Form with Hibernian. He played for Grangemouth International Boys Club. He joined Coventry City in August 1974 it then goes a bit hazy because a Norman Brown of Norwich City was a Scotland Under-18 trialist in 1975/76. Is this the same player? The next I have is that he played one league game for Dundee in the 1978/79 season after playing in Norway. I am afraid I do not have him playing for Meadowbank Thistle or anything after that. 

There were three Norrie Browns playing around the same time but your player is slightly younger than the other two. I believe that the Linlithgow Rose player was a Pumpherston player in 1969/70 before signing for Rose in August 1974. The other one came from Paisley and is older.

I am sorry I cannot help further but I hope others might be able to help.

Again - great stuff Blue Dragon - that's very useful.  I had the Norway info but not Coventry, although that could fit!  I'll keep looking but thanks again, DG

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I have a programme Highland League v Scotland Juniors 23rd March 1980 at Boroughbriggs, Elgin.

Does anyone have any details of the match? 

There was a player who went on to play  in a European Cup Final in the Programme line up curiously enough!

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Many Thanks. The new date explains why I could not find details at the library.   

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18 hours ago, Strathman said:

Many Thanks. The new date explains why I could not find details at the library.   

The original match was postponed due to the weather. Junior Scotland have played six matches against the Highland League but the 1980 match is the only one where we have the full details. Here are the six matches. Can anyone help fill in the gaps?

3 May 1980 at Borough Briggs, Elgin 0:3 lost 

5 April 1981 at Muirton Park, Perth  1:1 drawn (Missing nine players’ names and the Junior goalscorer)

1 May 1982 at Victoria Park, Buckie  0:1 lost (Only the names of the selected squad are known)

24 April 1983 at Westview Park, Kirriemuir 2:1 won (Only the names of the selected squad are known)

4 March 1997 at Allan Park, Aberdeen 1:0 won (Missing nine players’ names)

12 December 1999 at North End Park, Dundee (No details known – was it even played?)

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On 05/05/2019 at 01:07, Eednud said:

Thank you for posting the link to the photograph and article. The Dundee duo in the photograph scored both Scotland’s goals in a 2:1 win against England at St Andrews, Birmingham on 8 April 1933. Dicky Boag (Lochee Harp) opened the scoring after 20 minutes and then made the second goal for Jimmy Briggs (Dundee Violet) on 30 minutes. Although England got a goal back 10 minutes later, they could not get past Scottish ‘keeper Archie Gourlay (Dunipace) after that. The Birmingham crowd applauded him off the field at both half and full time for his performance.

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25 minutes ago, bluedragon said:

Thank you for posting the link to the photograph and article. The Dundee duo in the photograph scored both Scotland’s goals in a 2:1 win against England at St Andrews, Birmingham on 8 April 1933. Dicky Boag (Lochee Harp) opened the scoring after 20 minutes and then made the second goal for Jimmy Briggs (Dundee Violet) on 30 minutes. Although England got a goal back 10 minutes later, they could not get past Scottish ‘keeper Archie Gourlay (Dunipace) after that. The Birmingham crowd applauded him off the field at both half and full time for his performance.

I think I have found the name of the official in the photograph along with the two players. The Dundee Evening Telegraph (6 April 1933) says “They were accompanied by DS Beaton, one of the Forfarshire representatives on the SJFA”.  

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A question which is slightly off tangent but still relevant.

Have there been any Scottish Junior Internationalists (or Junior Cup Winners) who have went on to represent non-UK nations at full International level?  I’m thinking, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada, USA etc  ie through emigration to “The Dominions”.

I know a fair number of Scots have turned out for Australia, and indeed three Scots born players were fielded by New Zealand against Scotland in the 1982 WC.  Also of course, the USA was captained by a Scot when they beat England in the 1950 WC.  Just wondering if any were of “stature” in the Junior game.

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On 20/05/2019 at 10:15, Burnie_man said:

A question which is slightly off tangent but still relevant.

Have there been any Scottish Junior Internationalists (or Junior Cup Winners) who have went on to represent non-UK nations at full International level?  I’m thinking, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada, USA etc  ie through emigration to “The Dominions”.

I know a fair number of Scots have turned out for Australia, and indeed three Scots born players were fielded by New Zealand against Scotland in the 1982 WC.  Also of course, the USA was captained by a Scot when they beat England in the 1950 WC.  Just wondering if any were of “stature” in the Junior game.

The only one I have recorded is Archibald “Archie” Blue (Royal Albert) who played for Junior Scotland against Rangers on 16 December 1959. He signed for Heart of Midlothian immediately afterwards and stayed at Tynecastle until 30 April 1961. He was capped 12 times (4 goals) for Australia including twice against Scotland in 1967.

As you say there are probably many more as we did not specifically check that out. If you have some names it will be easy to check.

Bobby McCallum (Lanark United) was capped against England in 1976. His daughter (Collette) was capped 81 times for the Australian women’s team.

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The late Tommy O’Hara won three Junior international caps in the 1970/71 season while at Kirkintilloch Rob Roy. He also represented the United States of America in a friendly international against Trinidad & Tobago in Port of Spain on 21 March 1982. USA won 2:1.

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Thanks for that.  It was one of those questions that popped into my head randomly when reading something on Australian football!  I have a book coming soon, the Encyclopedia of the Socceroos, its basically a biography of every player to represent Australia, will be interesting to see what it turns up.

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