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Junior Internationals – questions, help, clarification, etc.


bluedragon

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Can anyone help us put names to faces in this photograph of the Junior Scotland party taken prior to the international against England at St Andrews, Birmingham on Saturday 8 April 1933? 

There are 13 people wearing caps presented for the match. To complicate matters they do not appear to be sitting in position order and the caps makes it more difficult to identify them by hair styles.  For those who went Senior  they would be relative young in this photograph so adding a further complication.

Counting the back row as Row 1 then in Row 1 I think the person fourth in from the left is DS Beaton, an official at Dundee Violet who travelled with the party. In Row 2 is goalkeeper Archie Gourlay.  One of the two others in Row 2 who are both wearing suits is Duncan Erskine who was the travelling reserve. The other is the trainer who might be T Wallace (Bridgeton Waverley).  In Row 3 with his hands on the shoulders of his team mate in front is Jimmy Briggs. That is as far as we have got!  Can anyone help please?

Here is the team in position order:

Archibald J Gourlay (Dunipace Juniors) – identified.

Duncan F McClure (Parkhead) – went Senior with Heart of Midlothian.

John McDonald (Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic)

Robert "Bobby" Corrance (Renfrew) (Captain) – went Senior and played for East Stirlingshire, Falkirk and Albion Rovers.

William Lyon (Kirkintilloch Rob Roy) – played for Queen’s Park and Celtic and captained the Scotland party on a tour of North America in 1939.

Malcolm McDonald (Tranent)

Hugh Naughton (Larkhall Thistle)

James "Jimmy" Briggs (Dundee Violet) – identified.

Alastair R McKillop (Rosslyn) – played briefly for Raith Rovers and Armadale.

Harry Duffy (Yoker Athletic)

Richard "Dicky" Boag (Lochee Harp) – later went Senior mainly played for Cowdenbeath

Travelling reserve: Duncan C Erskine (Alyth United)

Thank you.

Scotland v England 1933 team photograph.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

The attached is a photo of Robert Corrance when he was at East Stirlingshire in 1935/36. It is hard to say who he is in this 1932/33 team photo, 1st player on left 2nd row from the front perhaps ?

ps bought your book. Fantastic work. It is helping me a lot with my own research.

R. Corrance 1936.jpg

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Thanks for posting the photograph of Robert Corrance. The caps together with a few years on their ages in other team photographs make them difficult to identify. As Robert Corrance was captain I am wondering if he is the player in the middle of the seven players seated. With the goalkeeper standing directly behind him and directly in front of him is the middle player of the three players sitting cross legged it might be a logical place for him to sit.

Thanks for the kind words on the book.

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Thanks for posting the three photographs of Dickie Boag.  If in the team photograph he had not been wearing his cap and was smiling I think he would have been easy to find using your photographs.  From what I understand he was quite short in height and so I like your suggestion of third from the right second row from the front.

 

 

Edited by bluedragon
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  • 1 month later...

Excellent book.

Some missing attendances from matches at Rugby Park, from Kilmarnock FC's records:-

9th December 1950 Ayrshire JFA v Scotland (Knockshinnoch Colliery Disaster Relief Fund)      4,377

7th April 1951  Scotland v Wales     6,658

13th March 1965  Scotland v Ireland  2,675

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On 13/03/2020 at 19:50, Horatio said:

Excellent book.

Some missing attendances from matches at Rugby Park, from Kilmarnock FC's records:-

9th December 1950 Ayrshire JFA v Scotland (Knockshinnoch Colliery Disaster Relief Fund)      4,377

7th April 1951  Scotland v Wales     6,658

13th March 1965  Scotland v Ireland  2,675

Thanks for the attendance figures that are very difficult to find. I have updated the records.

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/05/2020 at 08:17, cmontheloknow said:

Got the book yesterday - looks a great source of reference!

One wee change while I remember: Robert Downs definitely has his name spelled that way, not Downes.

Thanks for the kind words on the book.  Thanks as well for the confirmation in the spelling of "Downs" and I have changed the records accordingly.

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2 hours ago, peasy23 said:

Been scanning a load of stuff to put on the Petershill Facebook page in the last few weeks, I'll stick some of the Scotland pictures on here too.

Scan_20200419 (5).jpg

Scan_20200419 (8).jpg

Thank you for posting the photographs. Bert McNab, of course, jointly holds the record of 13 Junior International caps.  

Willie Westwater won three caps and was part of a footballing dynasty! His own son, Alan, played for Australia. His brothers George (Dennistoun Waverley) and James (Benburb) also played Junior football. Their father, George, won three caps in 1924. A John Westwater of Dunipace played for Junior Scotland in a non-international match in 1908 and looks to be related.

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1 hour ago, bluedragon said:

Thank you for posting the photographs. Bert McNab, of course, jointly holds the record of 13 Junior International caps.  

Willie Westwater won three caps and was part of a footballing dynasty! His own son, Alan, played for Australia. His brothers George (Dennistoun Waverley) and James (Benburb) also played Junior football. Their father, George, won three caps in 1924. A John Westwater of Dunipace played for Junior Scotland in a non-international match in 1908 and looks to be related.

FYI Alan Westwater's first game for Australia was against Scotland Sydney in 1967, he played in all 3 games in the series. Wikipedia has him playing 14 times for Australia but the Australian Player Database has it as 16 although the games against Scotland were not full internationals as far as Scotland's concerned and the games Combined Services and 1 of the Indonesia games definiely not full internationals.

Westwater, George Alan
Date of Birth: 26-Mar-46, Bridge of Allan, Scotland
Position: Midfielder

Socceroo Honours
Total - 16 apps. 3 gls.
1967 - Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, New Zealand, South Vietnam, Singapore (1 goal), Malaysia, South Korea, Indonesia, Indonesia (sub), Singapore (1 goal), Combined Services (1 goal), Malaysia
1968 - Japan, Japan, Japan

New South Wales Representative Honours

Playing Record
1962 - Bankstown (NSW Div 1)
1963/4 - Stirling Albion (Scotland) 14 app. 2 gls.
1964/5 - Stirling Albion (Scotland) 10 app. 4 gls.
1965/6 - Stirling Albion (Scotland) 17 app. 2 gls.
1966 - Pan Hellenic (NSW Div 1)
1967 - Pan Hellenic (NSW Div 1)
1968 - Pan Hellenic (NSW Div 1)

against Scotland although these were not full internationals.

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  • 1 month later...

I have had an email to Newburgh FC website as follows

 

Looking for a photo of the Scottish Junior Team that played the Fife Junior F. A. at East Shore Park Newburgh on Saturday 16th September 1967

 Dear Secretary My name is John Chambers I played for Scotland Juniors that day along with one Kenny Dalglish I have lived in England for 36 years and wondered if you had an old photo somewhere in your club house I know it was a long time ago but you never know.I would I like it for my Grandson.I have Junior Scotland Book 1889 To 2019 The Players And Matches where I get a mention but no Team Photo. I know this is a big ask but please do what you can. Best Regards, John Chambers 

 

I have looked but we don't have anything at the club - can anyone help?

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21 hours ago, Griffin said:

I have had an email to Newburgh FC website as follows

 

Looking for a photo of the Scottish Junior Team that played the Fife Junior F. A. at East Shore Park Newburgh on Saturday 16th September 1967

 Dear Secretary My name is John Chambers I played for Scotland Juniors that day along with one Kenny Dalglish I have lived in England for 36 years and wondered if you had an old photo somewhere in your club house I know it was a long time ago but you never know.I would I like it for my Grandson.I have Junior Scotland Book 1889 To 2019 The Players And Matches where I get a mention but no Team Photo. I know this is a big ask but please do what you can. Best Regards, John Chambers 

 

I have looked but we don't have anything at the club - can anyone help?

I am afraid I cannot help with a team photograph but here are the twelve players who were selected in case it helps others find a photograph:

John Chambers (Kirkintilloch Rob Roy)

Kenny Dalglish (Cumbernauld United)

Billy Elder (Jeanfield Swifts)

Bobby Graham (Benburb)

Brian Heron (Baillieston)

Bobby Hodge (Whitburn)

William Hume (Penicuik Athletic)

Duncan Madden (Neilston)

James McGregor (Yoker Athletic)

Billy Murdoch (Kilsyth Rangers)

Peter Nicol (Ardrossan Winton Rovers)

Archie Young (Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic)

If you are in contact with John again it would great to know if he can remember who was the substitute and who scored the goal in the 1-0 as that is missing information at present.

Good luck in tracking a photograph down.

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On 07/07/2020 at 13:49, bluedragon said:

I am afraid I cannot help with a team photograph but here are the twelve players who were selected in case it helps others find a photograph:

John Chambers (Kirkintilloch Rob Roy)

Kenny Dalglish (Cumbernauld United)

Billy Elder (Jeanfield Swifts)

Bobby Graham (Benburb)

Brian Heron (Baillieston)

Bobby Hodge (Whitburn)

William Hume (Penicuik Athletic)

Duncan Madden (Neilston)

James McGregor (Yoker Athletic)

Billy Murdoch (Kilsyth Rangers)

Peter Nicol (Ardrossan Winton Rovers)

Archie Young (Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic)

If you are in contact with John again it would great to know if he can remember who was the substitute and who scored the goal in the 1-0 as that is missing information at present.

Good luck in tracking a photograph down.

I have had a reply from John as follows - Billy Murdoch  Kilsyth Rangers FC  and Frank Thomson  Renfrew Juniors FC   were the Subs that day. 

I also received a reply from elsewhere that the goalscorer was Dalglish, he said that Dalglish had scored from a re-taken free kick. 

If I find any more info or photos I will share the. 

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