Junior Internationals – questions, help, clarification, etc.

[bluedragon 89]

Thanks for everyone’s help on two previous threads (“Junior players capped as Amateur Internationals - help please” and “Players capped at Junior and Senior Level”). We have probably got the most complete lists of these Junior players. I have started this thread to tap into your vast knowledge to ask more general questions on Junior Internationals to help compile a more complete record of matches and players and then to make the results available to everyone.

I will start with a few points from the Scotland v Wales match in 1977. I am looking for help with the following:

1) First name of Mitchell (Kello Rovers)

2) First names of three substitutes Sloan (Yoker Athletic), McGoldrick (Kilbirnie Ladeside) and Brown (Linlithgow Rose)

3) First name and confirmation of the spelling of the surname of the substitute goalkeeper Reilly/Riley (Dundee North End)

As always any help will be very much appreciated.

Edited August 23, 2017 by bluedragon

[outsider 89]

On ‎23‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 12:56, bluedragon said:

Thanks for everyone’s help on two previous threads (“Junior players capped as Amateur Internationals - help please” and “Players capped at Junior and Senior Level”). We have probably got the most complete lists of these Junior players. I have started this thread to tap into your vast knowledge to ask more general questions on Junior Internationals to help compile a more complete record of matches and players and then to make the results available to everyone.

I will start with a few points from the Scotland v Wales match in 1977. I am looking for help with the following:

1) First name of Mitchell (Kello Rovers)

2) First names of three substitutes Sloan (Yoker Athletic), McGoldrick (Kilbirnie Ladeside) and Brown (Linlithgow Rose)

3) First name and confirmation of the spelling of the surname of the substitute goalkeeper Reilly/Riley (Dundee North End)

As always any help will be very much appreciated.

Question 1, think the name you're  after is Cammy Hitchell, he played in the game you mention and was a Kello player at the time, can only imagine Mitchell was a misprint. Hope this helps.

[Chis 98]

The late Cammy Hitchell is being inducted into Auchinleck Talbot's Hall of Fame on Saturday evening along with another Talbot Legend, Hugh Lyden.

[bluedragon 89]

2 hours ago, outsider said:

Question 1, think the name you're  after is Cammy Hitchell, he played in the game you mention and was a Kello player at the time, can only imagine Mitchell was a misprint. Hope this helps.

 

2 hours ago, Chis said:

The late Cammy Hitchell is being inducted into Auchinleck Talbot's Hall of Fame on Saturday evening along with another Talbot Legend, Hugh Lyden.

Thanks to you both and it was a mis-print in the newspaper. I have added the note about the induction to the Talbot Hall of Fame to his record and that of Hugh Lyden who also won one cap.

[Black Pennel 126]

Joe McGoldrick for Ladeside.

Just as an aside, the late Cammy Hitchell was one of the finest, and hardest, players I've ever seen.

He should've been in the hall of fame years ago.

[bluedragon 89]

Thank you for Joe McGoldrick. I have now found Gerald "Ged" Reilly was the substitute goalkeeper. That just leaves Brown (Linlithgow Rose) and Sloan (Yoker Athletic) with missing first names. 

[FuzzyBear 52]

I cant remeber Brown's first name but pretty sure he went on to be a linesman at junior level.

[superbigal 571]

That wasn't Ged Reilly's only famous substitute appearance.

Played once for Dundee Utd at 16 years of age coming on as a sub against Newcastle Utd in the Old Fairs (Uefa) cup.

He replaced Don MacKay the ex Blackburn manager.

[desmond tutu 2]

Think it was Norman Norrie Brown

[FuzzyBear 52]

Think it was Norman Norrie Brown

Thats it.

[Karl Berg 18]

15 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said:

I cant remeber Brown's first name but pretty sure he went on to be a linesman at junior level.

Norrie Brown played for the Rose around that time.  As you say I've seen Norrie often at Linlithgow as linesman, he's also refereed my son at U13/14 level.

[bluedragon 89]

Thanks for confirming Norrie Brown and for the extra information on Ged Reilly. That just leaves "Sloan (Yoker Athletic)" minus a first name from the 1977 side.

My next question is about Carruthers (Linlithgow Rose) who played for Junior Scotland against an Arsenal XI on 1 March 1969. Is this Eric Carruthers (later of Hearts), a brother or no relation at all? Can anyone help please? 

As far as I can see Eric Carruthers played for Hearts as an amateur before signing professional forms on his 17^th birthday on 2 February 1970. As a 16 year old he played for the Scottish Amateur team against Holland on 19 November 1969. I can find no record of Eric being farmed out to Linlithgow Rose that would qualify him for the SJFA XI. On one hand he would have only just turned 16 and so perhaps too young but on the other hand both players were forwards.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[AMFC 8]

19 hours ago, bluedragon said:

That just leaves "Sloan (Yoker Athletic)" minus a first name from the 1977 side.

Evening Times dated 9th April 1977 talks of Yoker midfielder Danny Sloan playing a trial match for Hamilton Accies against Albion Rovers - can't guarantee that they didn't have two Sloans on the books at the time, of course.

AMFC

[bluedragon 89]

2 hours ago, AMFC said:

Evening Times dated 9th April 1977 talks of Yoker midfielder Danny Sloan playing a trial match for Hamilton Accies against Albion Rovers - can't guarantee that they didn't have two Sloans on the books at the time, of course.

AMFC

Thanks AMFC. I am sure you are correct.. Following your lead I had a look in the Evening Times for any Yoker line-ups from around that time. They all had only one Sloan. The other pointer is that his Hamilton Accies trial was days after his Junior Scotland cap. I have included Danny as the missing forename.

[garrellburn 398]

Little bit off topic, but former Kilsyth goalkeeper Roy Lowe who got a couple of junior caps, around 1955-56 perhaps?, died last week aged 87 in Australia where he had been a resident for many years. He kept up with another of his Kilsyth team mates from that era who also went out there, Willie Westwater,.He also had a few junior caps, first when with Dunipace , then with Kilsyth around 1953-55. He captained our Scottish cup winning team iin 1955 and left for Ozzie near the end of the 55-56 season.

His son, Alan Westwater, was a member of the Australian team which qualified for the World cup finals, late 70's? or early 80's? They actually played together in the same team out there, Alan came back to Scotland and as far as am I aware is still living in Denny which is where the family came from.

[bluedragon 89]

55 minutes ago, garrellburn said:

Little bit off topic, but former Kilsyth goalkeeper Roy Lowe who got a couple of junior caps, around 1955-56 perhaps?, died last week aged 87 in Australia where he had been a resident for many years. He kept up with another of his Kilsyth team mates from that era who also went out there, Willie Westwater,.He also had a few junior caps, first when with Dunipace , then with Kilsyth around 1953-55. He captained our Scottish cup winning team iin 1955 and left for Ozzie near the end of the 55-56 season.

His son, Alan Westwater, was a member of the Australian team which qualified for the World cup finals, late 70's? or early 80's? They actually played together in the same team out there, Alan came back to Scotland and as far as am I aware is still living in Denny which is where the family came from.

That is sad news. As you say, Roy Lowe played twice for Junior Scotland. Both matches were in 1958 in wins against Wales (away 2:0) and the Republic of Ireland (home - Firhill 3:1). He played alongside Kilsyth Rangers team mate Donald McLure in the Welsh game and Pat Crerand of Duntocher Hibs in both games . Roy Lowe was a doubtful starter for the Welsh game at Bangor. He had picked up ‘flu on the long trip from Glasgow to the team’s Llandudno base. However, he made it and did not concede a goal, despite a Welsh onslaught after Scotland had opened the scoring. The final score was 2:0 to Scotland.

 While at Dunipace Willie Westwater played in all three Junior internationals in 1952. I don't have him capped while at Kilsyth so if you know more I would be interested to hear.

[bluedragon 89]

There was a right back capped three times in 1924 called Westwater who was playing for Dunipace. Is that an earlier generation?

[garrellburn 398]

1 hour ago, bluedragon said:

There was a right back capped three times in 1924 called Westwater who was playing for Dunipace. Is that an earlier generation?

I would presume so, the Westwaters were a very well known football family iin Denny. I seem to remember that Willie had a brother playing around the same time, maybe Pricey would have some knowledge of this?

[garrellburn 398]

 While at Dunipace Willie Westwater played in all three Junior internationals in 1952. I don't have him capped while at Kilsyth so if you know more I would be interested to hear.

 

0

• 
  You could be right, memory is starting to play tricks. Another player capped from Kilsyth during the same era was Denis Mochan, brother of Neil of Celtic. Denis had a couple of senior clubs in Scotland, then quite a few years at Notts Forest. Finished up as manager of Colchester (briefly) before retiring and returning to Scotland.
• Still hale and hearty and a fairly regular visitor to Duncansfield

[Jambo'ness 770]

On 28/08/2017 at 23:17, bluedragon said:

Thanks for confirming Norrie Brown and for the extra information on Ged Reilly. That just leaves "Sloan (Yoker Athletic)" minus a first name from the 1977 side.

My next question is about Carruthers (Linlithgow Rose) who played for Junior Scotland against an Arsenal XI on 1 March 1969. Is this Eric Carruthers (later of Hearts), a brother or no relation at all? Can anyone help please? 

As far as I can see Eric Carruthers played for Hearts as an amateur before signing professional forms on his 17^th birthday on 2 February 1970. As a 16 year old he played for the Scottish Amateur team against Holland on 19 November 1969. I can find no record of Eric being farmed out to Linlithgow Rose that would qualify him for the SJFA XI. On one hand he would have only just turned 16 and so perhaps too young but on the other hand both players were forwards.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Eric went to Hearts from Salvesens BC in 1969 and was a regular in the reserves and made his first team debut in Feb 1970.

So sorry cannot help to confirm, just eliminate him from your enquiries.