Sticking up for Scottish Football

[forameus]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Weather we are getting much needed dosh from china,bbc,sky/bt or uefa it all promotes our game in scotland,my problem is when the clubs get the dosh they dont put it into the structure of the club they piss it all away.

Aye, right enough.  No club does that.

I'm really glad we didn't invest any money in our club and picked up those galactico players like Matthias Pogba and Ziggy Gordon.

 

[shuggz]

2 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

That ends next year

Aye,sorry..thought you were putting it forward as news of a new deal.

[Guest Pampered Adolescent]

All,

First, apologies in advance for what may be a long post.

Next, there seems to be a lot of positivity here, which I warmly applaud.

Next, I make my comments from a background where my last three live games were: Playoff Final, Second leg (May 15), Cup Final (May 15) and Motherwell vs Aalesund (August 10).

Today, if I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't buy into the brand. And, when I last lived in Scotland, I did own a MFC Season Ticket for the East Stand.

Why so?

1. Fan Behaviour: If one considers the associations (FIFA/UEFA/SPLFL/SFA etc) as being peas in a pod, why do EUFA see issues with predominantly Glasgow fans that the Scottish suits just do not see or hear? It does seem that UEFA do walk the talk regarding politics, sectarianism, and the like. Almost every provincial club's fansite has examples of vile singing by the Glasgow lot(*), sometimes with embedded videos or hyperlinks, yet, the authorities appear reluctant to act. It seems that only when the level of hatred escalates to death threats does 'internet evidence' come into play. (I do concede that there could be wider social issues at play here, but any credible organisation should demonstrate leadership and accountability)

(*) Thistle and Clyde fans: not your clubs

2. SFA Incompetence: A few earlier down the post mentioned marketting of the game,and I certainly agree this is a shambles at present. For the Cup Final in 2015, I ordered online, using the Chinese address that my card was registered at. I tried to collect my ticket in advance on a wet and windy Wednesday, only to be told that the only means I could collect would be in person, on the Saturday, before the game. If I had a UK address, I am sure I could have had my ticket posted there. This cut short socilalising with my Falkirk mates before the game, no big hardship really, but an incredible and arrogant approach from the 'home of Scottish Football'. 

3.Refereeing: In the last  three games, Motherwell have had a staggering five players sent off. I notice that the OP is a Saints fan, and I am not claiming that the sendings off last Saturday would have influenced the outcome. My point is that 3 out of 5, 60% of these are to be appealed. In other walks of life appeals, are exceptional.    It seems that Scottish referees are perhaps being encouraged, certainly not being discouraged, from being card happy. Why would I risk paying good money for a game, which, at the moment, is unlikely to end up 11 vs 11? Of course mistakes do happen, however, with Collum and Thomson, with Motherwell, they happen more often than not.

Apologies if I have inadvertently taken this a bit off topic, and if someone wants to direct me to a more appropriate thread to discuss this, that's fine.

Regards

PA

[buchan30]

Having said that any coverage of Divs 1, 2 & 3 is welcome but I think it should be on our mainstream channels (BBC 1 or 2 or STV) not Alba.

Don't disagree with that, but given that alba got this sort of coverage (and fair enough lower leagues wise, its not much) but 1,2 and stv might not have been interested in it.

[scottmcleanscontacts]

All,
First, apologies in advance for what may be a long post.
Next, there seems to be a lot of positivity here, which I warmly applaud.
Next, I make my comments from a background where my last three live games were: Playoff Final, Second leg (May 15), Cup Final (May 15) and Motherwell vs Aalesund (August 10).
Today, if I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't buy into the brand. And, when I last lived in Scotland, I did own a MFC Season Ticket for the East Stand.
Why so?
1. Fan Behaviour: If one considers the associations (FIFA/UEFA/SPLFL/SFA etc) as being peas in a pod, why do EUFA see issues with predominantly Glasgow fans that the Scottish suits just do not see or hear? It does seem that UEFA do walk the talk regarding politics, sectarianism, and the like. Almost every provincial club's fansite has examples of vile singing by the Glasgow lot(*), sometimes with embedded videos or hyperlinks, yet, the authorities appear reluctant to act. It seems that only when the level of hatred escalates to death threats does 'internet evidence' come into play. (I do concede that there could be wider social issues at play here, but any credible organisation should demonstrate leadership and accountability)
(*) Thistle and Clyde fans: not your clubs
2. SFA Incompetence: A few earlier down the post mentioned marketting of the game,and I certainly agree this is a shambles at present. For the Cup Final in 2015, I ordered online, using the Chinese address that my card was registered at. I tried to collect my ticket in advance on a wet and windy Wednesday, only to be told that the only means I could collect would be in person, on the Saturday, before the game. If I had a UK address, I am sure I could have had my ticket posted there. This cut short socilalising with my Falkirk mates before the game, no big hardship really, but an incredible and arrogant approach from the 'home of Scottish Football'. 
3.Refereeing: In the last  three games, Motherwell have had a staggering five players sent off. I notice that the OP is a Saints fan, and I am not claiming that the sendings off last Saturday would have influenced the outcome. My point is that 3 out of 5, 60% of these are to be appealed. In other walks of life appeals, are exceptional.    It seems that Scottish referees are perhaps being encouraged, certainly not being discouraged, from being card happy. Why would I risk paying good money for a game, which, at the moment, is unlikely to end up 11 vs 11? Of course mistakes do happen, however, with Collum and Thomson, with Motherwell, they happen more often than not.
Apologies if I have inadvertently taken this a bit off topic, and if someone wants to direct me to a more appropriate thread to discuss this, that's fine.
Regards
PA

I do like a lot of what you've said here. This thread was created before the game on Saturday but that game, along with a few others (Rangers v Hibs in particular) are again the types of games we should be shouting about. Full of goals and incident.

I accept that the third Motherwell red card at the weekend was extremely unlucky and the incorrect decision. However, the other two were spot on. Now whilst not ideal from a Motherwell point of view nobody can deny that it was exciting.

[Guest Pampered Adolescent]

16 hours ago, scottmcleanscontacts said:

I do like a lot of what you've said here. This thread was created before the game on Saturday but that game, along with a few others (Rangers v Hibs in particular) are again the types of games we should be shouting about. Full of goals and incident.

I accept that the third Motherwell red card at the weekend was extremely unlucky and the incorrect decision. However, the other two were spot on. Now whilst not ideal from a Motherwell point of view nobody can deny that it was exciting.

Fair points. I will point out that the referees in both games you mention were demoted to Tier 2 games this weekend, before the results of the appeals. Just like how a government will bury 'bad news' when something big ticket e.g. Grenfell Fire hits the media.

Also, I note that the English FA now can apply retrospective action in the case of simulation. Unsure of the Scottish position, except that if Graham Cummins has received such retrospective action for simulation, this hasn't, yet, made the BBC.

I won't distract the thread any further, and I will make a decision on whether to support the game the next time I am in Scotland. By then, some things may have changed.

Regards

PA 

 

[SilverWolfe]

Fair points. I will point out that the referees in both games you mention were demoted to Tier 2 games this weekend, before the results of the appeals. Just like how a government will bury 'bad news' when something big ticket e.g. Grenfell Fire hits the media.
Also, I note that the English FA now can apply retrospective action in the case of simulation. Unsure of the Scottish position, except that if Graham Cummins has received such retrospective action for simulation, this hasn't, yet, made the BBC.
I won't distract the thread any further, and I will make a decision on whether to support the game the next time I am in Scotland. By then, some things may have changed.
Regards
PA 
 

While your points are fair enough regarding fan behaviour and shit referees, you're acting like a bit of a 'pampered adolescent' tbqh.

Fair enough if you're coming back to Scotland and miss the football because you want to see family and friends etc but this toys out the pram attitude because you don't like a couple of things is pathetic. You're probably the sort of guy that would call the police when there is an ear cupping.

[PauloPerth]

22 hours ago, Pampered Adolescent said:

All,

First, apologies in advance for what may be a long post.

Next, there seems to be a lot of positivity here, which I warmly applaud.

Next, I make my comments from a background where my last three live games were: Playoff Final, Second leg (May 15), Cup Final (May 15) and Motherwell vs Aalesund (August 10).

Today, if I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't buy into the brand. And, when I last lived in Scotland, I did own a MFC Season Ticket for the East Stand.

Why so?

1. Fan Behaviour: If one considers the associations (FIFA/UEFA/SPLFL/SFA etc) as being peas in a pod, why do EUFA see issues with predominantly Glasgow fans that the Scottish suits just do not see or hear? It does seem that UEFA do walk the talk regarding politics, sectarianism, and the like. Almost every provincial club's fansite has examples of vile singing by the Glasgow lot(*), sometimes with embedded videos or hyperlinks, yet, the authorities appear reluctant to act. It seems that only when the level of hatred escalates to death threats does 'internet evidence' come into play. (I do concede that there could be wider social issues at play here, but any credible organisation should demonstrate leadership and accountability)

(*) Thistle and Clyde fans: not your clubs

2. SFA Incompetence: A few earlier down the post mentioned marketting of the game,and I certainly agree this is a shambles at present. For the Cup Final in 2015, I ordered online, using the Chinese address that my card was registered at. I tried to collect my ticket in advance on a wet and windy Wednesday, only to be told that the only means I could collect would be in person, on the Saturday, before the game. If I had a UK address, I am sure I could have had my ticket posted there. This cut short socilalising with my Falkirk mates before the game, no big hardship really, but an incredible and arrogant approach from the 'home of Scottish Football'. 

3.Refereeing: In the last  three games, Motherwell have had a staggering five players sent off. I notice that the OP is a Saints fan, and I am not claiming that the sendings off last Saturday would have influenced the outcome. My point is that 3 out of 5, 60% of these are to be appealed. In other walks of life appeals, are exceptional.    It seems that Scottish referees are perhaps being encouraged, certainly not being discouraged, from being card happy. Why would I risk paying good money for a game, which, at the moment, is unlikely to end up 11 vs 11? Of course mistakes do happen, however, with Collum and Thomson, with Motherwell, they happen more often than not.

Apologies if I have inadvertently taken this a bit off topic, and if someone wants to direct me to a more appropriate thread to discuss this, that's fine.

Regards

PA

Regarding point 1, I watched some of Thistle v Celtic on Friday night and just about all I heard was Celtic fans singing about the IRA. At the game last night, there was nothing like that I heard. And that is because UEFA, money grabbing power mad b*****ds though they are, have not accepted it, and continually punished Celtic.

If the spfl did the same, e.g. dock them points, then these wee dafties would soon give it up. There just needs to be a bit of backbone from the governing body.

[7-2]

23 hours ago, Pampered Adolescent said:

if I was living in Scotland, I wouldn't buy into the brand.

[SilverWolfe]

Regarding point 1, I watched some of Thistle v Celtic on Friday night and just about all I heard was Celtic fans singing about the IRA. At the game last night, there was nothing like that I heard. And that is because UEFA, money grabbing power mad b*****ds though they are, have not accepted it, and continually punished Celtic.
If the spfl did the same, e.g. dock them points, then these wee dafties would soon give it up. There just needs to be a bit of backbone from the governing body.

Tbh that's not quite true. It's very rare that you'll hear the "song book" at home games in general. The away crowd on the other hand is terrible for it. The fans that partake in this signing don't care about what UEFA think or do

[PauloPerth]

1 minute ago, Tartantony said:

 

Tbh that's not quite true. It's very rare that you'll hear the "song book" at home games in general. The away crowd on the other hand is terrible for it. The fans that partake in this signing don't care about what UEFA think or do

 

Ok. But don't you think if the team was continually punished for it that it would stop?  

I didn't see closely, but I don't think the flags on display yesterday were the usual daft attention seeking political ones that we've seen of late

[scottmcleanscontacts]

Fair points. I will point out that the referees in both games you mention were demoted to Tier 2 games this weekend, before the results of the appeals. Just like how a government will bury 'bad news' when something big ticket e.g. Grenfell Fire hits the media.
Also, I note that the English FA now can apply retrospective action in the case of simulation. Unsure of the Scottish position, except that if Graham Cummins has received such retrospective action for simulation, this hasn't, yet, made the BBC.
I won't distract the thread any further, and I will make a decision on whether to support the game the next time I am in Scotland. By then, some things may have changed.
Regards
PA 
 

I actually believe that to be harsh on Craig Thomson....and I'm not normally one to stick up for referees, least very often. He's got 2 big calls spot on and without the benefit of replays (which, incidentally are still not 100% conclusive) i can see why he gave the decision he did in the Dunne/Cummins incident.

[SilverWolfe]

Ok. But don't you think if the team was continually punished for it that it would stop?  

 

You're going down the route of strict liability with this chat, which is for another day/ thread.

 

However, to answer the general point, no I don't think it would stop. Sectarian singing/ behaviour is not a Scottish football problem, it's a society problem and until it's dealt with there it won't change at a football ground. Punishing the club wouldn't make any difference imo

 

Anyway we are supposed to be bigging up Scottish football here not highlighting it's problems. Let's celebrate the good

 

[PauloPerth]

41 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

 

You're going down the route of strict liability with this chat, which is for another day/ thread.

 

However, to answer the general point, no I don't think it would stop. Sectarian singing/ behaviour is not a Scottish football problem, it's a society problem and until it's dealt with there it won't change at a football ground. Punishing the club wouldn't make any difference imo

 

Anyway we are supposed to be bigging up Scottish football here not highlighting it's problems. Let's celebrate the good

 

Yes agreed it's been done to death elsewhere. Was just on the back of the other poster mentioning it.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

48 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

 

You're going down the route of strict liability with this chat, which is for another day/ thread.

 

However, to answer the general point, no I don't think it would stop. Sectarian singing/ behaviour is not a Scottish football problem, it's a society problem and until it's dealt with there it won't change at a football ground. Punishing the club wouldn't make any difference imo

 

Anyway we are supposed to be bigging up Scottish football here not highlighting it's problems. Let's celebrate the good

 

Football provides a vehicle for the sentiment.  Strict liability would squeeze it from football and diminish its reach elsewhere.

We're adults; if we're going to recognise what's good about Scottish football and I agree that there's plenty, then we'd better acknowledge the cancer that's there too. 

[EdTheDuck]

On 8/12/2017 at 00:21, Nightmare said:

Iceland is definitely one. Cyprus possibly the other?

Scratch that, won't be Cyprus. Their top division attendances look like the Scottish Premiership if you take out our biggest 5.

It could be the Faroes. The average attendance for their top division is about 500 in a country of under 50,000 people, that's around 5% of the population at a game on any given Saturday.

I was in Torshavn when the cup final was played in 2016 and the attendance was about 4,500 that's like 450,000 at a Scottish Cup final. They really like their fitba

 

[tamba_trio]

They're not going to start docking points for sectarian singing.

It'd stop it (or at least quieten it) but it wouldn't wash for a couple of reasons:

• If Celtic or Rangers were going to be docked points, pretty soon they'd stop accepting tickets to away games.  None of the other teams are going to risk losing that money so they're not going to act.
• Celtic and Rangers are okay with it.  The more sectarian and obnoxious the singing, the more the rivalry escalates and the more tickets they sell.  

I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get the rest of the league to agree to the current TV deal.  I mean, I get how they could've arranged it when they were both in the premier league but - once Rangers got liquated - why didn't the other clubs push to have the TV deal amended??  Here we are - three weeks into the season - and we've yet to see a live match that wasn't Celtic or Rangers winning.  You can't sell a sport that's so predictable.

[Jacksgranda]

On ‎11‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 13:16, Northboy said:

Apologies for the pedantry but Slovakia doesn't have a border with Germany.

Did it have a border with the Sudetenand?

[EdTheDuck]

1 hour ago, tamba_trio said:

They're not going to start docking points for sectarian singing.

It'd stop it (or at least quieten it) but it wouldn't wash for a couple of reasons:

• If Celtic or Rangers were going to be docked points, pretty soon they'd stop accepting tickets to away games.  None of the other teams are going to risk losing that money so they're not going to act.
• Celtic and Rangers are okay with it.  The more sectarian and obnoxious the singing, the more the rivalry escalates and the more tickets they sell.  

I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get the rest of the league to agree to the current TV deal.  I mean, I get how they could've arranged it when they were both in the premier league but - once Rangers got liquated - why didn't the other clubs push to have the TV deal amended??  Here we are - three weeks into the season - and we've yet to see a live match that wasn't Celtic or Rangers winning.  You can't sell a sport that's so predictable.

This is precisely what SKY/BT will say at negotiations I'd imagine and why they use our game, by and large, as a filler item. It's also why SKY in particular see the OF(d) games as the be all and end all of Scottish football.

I doubt Celtic (or ultimately Rangers) will care but the fact is that when games involving The Rest are high stakes with something tangible hanging on them the TV viewing figures are very respectable (in a Scottish football context). Neither of the Sauchiehall Street Hoors are going to agree to a league system that weakens their grip on the title for a few more million tacked onto the TV deal.

 

 

[paul wright scores]

On 8/17/2017 at 18:38, Tartantony said:

However, to answer the general point, no I don't think it would stop. Sectarian singing/ behaviour is not a Scottish football problem, it's a society problem and until it's dealt with there it won't change at a football ground. Punishing the club wouldn't make any difference

 

Yes it would.  Having heard the usual bile at Rugby Park yesterday from The Greatest Bigots In The World, I believe that if the authorities had any balls they could well eradicate it.  The fact of the matter is that Rangers and Celtic are perfectly happy for it to continue as it keeps the "rivalry" going. Removing it would devalue the old firm game. 

Scottish football will never progress the way it needs to as long as nonsense is tolerated.  Where I sit in the East Stand more than half the season ticket holders were missing from their seats yesterday, the vast majority because they have no desire to attend games when either half of the old firm are in town