Sticking up for Scottish Football

[10menwent2mow]

It's a pain in the arse. Two of us can drive to say Dingwall for less than it costs one of us on the train. In an ideal world I'd get the train to lots of games but just not worth it.

Indeed. Totally agree. Or you end up in the situation that I did last season where I booked for Killie ages in advance on the Saturday and the game got moved to Sunday. Ended up at Dumbarton v Ayr on the Sat because the tickets were non refundable.

[lanky_ffc]

1 hour ago, 10menwent2mow said:

Football fans I'd imagine are a large percentage of the rail networks passenger traffic on any given Saturday. Could there not be some sort of small discount given to those travelling with a match ticket.

Scotrail actually do the opposite when there's big games on. I tried to buy a group save for three of us for the England game and was told they weren't available. I don't think it's solely for football either as their website has the following:

Is the ticket subject to availability?
No, but we do reserve the right to remove the option for GroupSave tickets during times of expected high demand such as large events.

Shower of c***s tbh.

[buchan30]

As far as BBC Alba are concerned if they get just 15,000 viewers that'll be about 14,000 more than their usual audience. Showing football on this channel is, I suspect, something of a cynical ploy to boost their 'monthly reach'.

Isn't that the ploy of every channel that offers us "deals" think it is still a good idea though. Agree with 7-2 that if this sort of package was available, why haven't bbc scotland picked it up? Seems daft considering that not everyone watches sportscene because their team aren't on it. Think having lower league highlights/games would have helped boost their ratings.

Did scotsport not show the goals from the 1st division as well as the premier league when it was on?

[tamba_trio]

56 minutes ago, buchan30 said:

 

Isn't that the ploy of every channel that offers us "deals" think it is still a good idea though. Agree with 7-2 that if this sort of package was available, why haven't bbc scotland picked it up? Seems daft considering that not everyone watches sportscene because their team aren't on it. Think having lower league highlights/games would have helped boost their ratings.

Did scotsport not show the goals from the 1st division as well as the premier league when it was on?

 

I remember back in 1988 Sportscene (on a Saturday night, no less) would show proper highlights of one game (half an hour length, not this five minute nonsense we get now - hell, the commentator was even at the game).  You'd also get goals and brief highlights from the other Premier matches (apart from one, which got half hour highlights on Scotsport on Sunday) and from one first division and one second division game.

[EdTheDuck]

55 minutes ago, buchan30 said:

 

Isn't that the ploy of every channel that offers us "deals"

 

No.

The funding of Alba was a sore point for the BBC given its viewing numbers compared to cost. Using football to boost its reach is not the same as BBC 1 Scotland paying to show football as BBC 1 Scotland’s overall viewing figures would not decline significantly without football – Alba’s would. Their licence is tied into them reaching a certain number of viewers and football helps immensely to achieve that.

Having said that any coverage of Divs 1, 2 & 3 is welcome but I think it should be on our mainstream channels (BBC 1 or 2 or STV) not Alba.

[tamba_trio]

It definitely should be on a mainstream channel Ed.  Really - the only coverage we get of the lower leagues is in Gaellic???  

On another note - so Rangers and Celtic only get 4 home games a season broadcast (meaning a lot of potentially good matches go unseen).  See next weekend for example: Rangers v Hearts is a far more interesting match than watching Celtic score 5 at Rugby Park but we always have to show the away team.

BUT how did this get agreed??  I mean, they couldn't have done this themselves - at least some of the other clubs would have to agree to it.  So how did the rest of the Scottish football become so beholden to the Old Firm?  And why??  What do they gain out of it?  A few more peanuts??  20 years ago that Kilmarnock v Celtic match would have had 13,000 Kilmarnock fans at it.  Now they'll probably get 3 or 4 thousand (if that) because of what Celtic and Rangers have done to the league.  So why do the other clubs continuously give them the freedom to doctor things as they please??  Do they think things are suddenly going to improve?

I don't get it.

[Malcolm Malcolm]

As far as BBC Alba are concerned if they get just 15,000 viewers that'll be about 14,000 more than their usual audience. Showing football on this channel is, I suspect, something of a cynical ploy to boost their 'monthly reach'.

Yeah, that's utter bollocks.

[Malcolm Malcolm]

BBC Alba secures new Scottish football deal – Sport On The Box
I don't want to derail the thread but all I shall say is I don't pay a tv tax to BBC Alba and another to BBC Scotland. I pay one to the BBC. Time they got their internal budgets sorted out and only gave us proper coverage on their main channel.

That would be great but do you really think it is a serious possibility?

[Monkey Tennis]

Alba coverage is actually something of a pain in the arse.  It is, as Ed says, an artificial means of boosting their viewing figures in a way that would be harder to achieve with other Gaelic language content.

The overall sums aren't big and nothing additional goes to the clubs whose games get screened.  For some reason, they kept showing Queens and Raith Rovers fixtures at both venues, over recent seasons.   The effect was to shift the kick-off time to something less convenient, suppress the home gate and demolish the away one.  

I'd be happier if Alba didn't show any live football.

[EdTheDuck]

26 minutes ago, tamba_trio said:

It definitely should be on a mainstream channel Ed.  Really - the only coverage we get of the lower leagues is in Gaellic???  

On another note - so Rangers and Celtic only get 4 home games a season broadcast (meaning a lot of potentially good matches go unseen).  See next weekend for example: Rangers v Hearts is a far more interesting match than watching Celtic score 5 at Rugby Park but we always have to show the away team.

BUT how did this get agreed??  I mean, they couldn't have done this themselves - at least some of the other clubs would have to agree to it.  So how did the rest of the Scottish football become so beholden to the Old Firm?  And why??  What do they gain out of it?  A few more peanuts??  20 years ago that Kilmarnock v Celtic match would have had 13,000 Kilmarnock fans at it.  Now they'll probably get 3 or 4 thousand (if that) because of what Celtic and Rangers have done to the league.  So why do the other clubs continuously give them the freedom to doctor things as they please??  Do they think things are suddenly going to improve?

I don't get it.

I imagine that the limit on games from Ibrox and Parkhead is simply to avoid SKY/BT being there every other week. SKY/BT would happily show OF(deceased) home games because of audience figures (and advert revenue) but..

...if there was a dozen or so games from those grounds every season, maybe the OF(d) are worried a percentage of ST holders would simply use their SKY subscription to watch those 12 games instead of buying STs which they apparently don’t use every week anyway judging by empty seats.

It is agreed, because if the TV deal was blocked by the OF(d) cuz too many games were to be shown from Ibrox & Parkhead those two clubs would not suffer to the same extent as The Rest. Take two million quid away from Celtic and they could shake it off, but take one million away from Kilmarnock or Aberdeen or Dundee...

 

[Guest]

The idea that there's no interest in Scottish football without the Old firm is quite clearly utter dross.

Dundee Derbies, Ayrshire Derbies, Renfrewshire Derbies & Edinburgh Derbies all pull in bigger crowds and more interest than any of the individual clubs playing either side of the Old Firm. You'd have thought that the club Chairmen/ Boards would have had the backbone to stand together and stand up to the bullying TV companies when it comes to them dictating what gets shown and from where.

Unfortunately it's all about self preservation and they seem more than happy to be fed the scraps after the Glasgow bully boys take their mammoth share. Pretty poor.

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Dundee Derbies, Ayrshire Derbies, Renfrewshire Derbies & Edinburgh Derbies all pull in bigger crowds and more interest than any of the individual clubs playing either side of the Old Firm.

Are you sure?

Have you got figures to support you here?  I wish you were right, but I think the depressing reality is otherwise.

[Alert Mongoose]

BBC Alba presenters...











I'd prefer the highlights on Alba.

[tamba_trio]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Are you sure?

Have you got figures to support you here?  I wish you were right, but I think the depressing reality is otherwise.

I'm pretty sure it's true.  I looked into attendances a few years back and local derbies were pretty much the only thing that bumped figures up.  

Having a quick look at Dundee Utd (2015/16 season):

11/8/15 Dundee Utd 2 Dundee 2 - 11,835

22/8/15 Dundee Utd 1 Celtic 2 - 10,605

Or howsabout Kilmarnock?

5/1/15 Kilmarnock 0 Celtic 2 - 5,329

26/8/14 Kilmarnock 1 Ayr 0 - 8,877

I'm sure Dundee would be similar - visually I don't see any jump when teams host the Old Firm anymore.  There's not the gain in crowds that you got 20 years ago.  Scottish footballs big strength is in it's local derbies: it'd be sensible to market it as such.  

[Monkey Tennis]

26 minutes ago, tamba_trio said:

I'm pretty sure it's true.  I looked into attendances a few years back and local derbies were pretty much the only thing that bumped figures up.  

Having a quick look at Dundee Utd (2015/16 season):

11/8/15 Dundee Utd 2 Dundee 2 - 11,835

22/8/15 Dundee Utd 1 Celtic 2 - 10,605

Or howsabout Kilmarnock?

5/1/15 Kilmarnock 0 Celtic 2 - 5,329

26/8/14 Kilmarnock 1 Ayr 0 - 8,877

I'm sure Dundee would be similar - visually I don't see any jump when teams host the Old Firm anymore.  There's not the gain in crowds that you got 20 years ago.  Scottish footballs big strength is in it's local derbies: it'd be sensible to market it as such.  

Ah sorry.  I was meaning TV audiences, but you do clearly refer to crowds in your post - my mistake.  

You're right about the OF holding little attraction when visiting other sides now.  That they sold out everywhere was part of the Armageddon myth.  It's not been true for a while now.

[EdTheDuck]

15 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Ah sorry.  I was meaning TV audiences, but you do clearly refer to crowds in your post - my mistake.  

You're right about the OF holding little attraction when visiting other sides now.  That they sold out everywhere was part of the Armageddon myth.  It's not been true for a while now.

The TV audiences for games between The Rest are pretty awful by comparison but perfectly understandable.

For one thing the games picked are often bewildering - St Johnstone -v- Aberdeen on a Monday in the middle of winter, for example, plus they rarely have anything of genuine consequence hanging on them. When they do that we can see the potential.

A couple of years back the playoffs had BT viewing figures of well over 100,000, comparable with OF games v The Rest. Likewise last year's playoffs had audiences around and over that 100,000 figure. Plus that relegation Dundee derby back in 2015/16 pulled in 95,000 on a Monday night and, of course all these games would have had near full houses.

It might seem patently obvious that high stakes games are going to attract more attention but we are force fed the notion that the only games that matter involve the old sauchiehall hoors; unfortunately because of the financial imbalances it is inevitably the case that as far as the title is concerned the only games that do matter do involve them. Aberdeen-Hearts or St. Johnstone-Hibs this season will likely matter for EL places but that isn't genuinely high stakes other than for the attending fans - it won't attract a TV audience.

The point is if we could find a way to make those games matter in the wider context of the title race year-in & year-out you would get far bigger TV audiences (at least more often) and by dint of that more TV money.

[wastecoatwilly]

SPFL agrees new live TV deal for China - BBC Sport

[shuggz]

28 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

SPFL agrees new live TV deal for China - BBC Sport

You do realise thats 2 years ago.

[wastecoatwilly]

48 minutes ago, shuggz said:

You do realise thats 2 years ago.

That ends next year

[wastecoatwilly]

Weather we are getting much needed dosh from china,bbc,sky/bt or uefa it all promotes our game in scotland,my problem is when the clubs get the dosh they dont put it into the structure of the club they piss it all away.