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mrman2011

League Cup group stage was a success

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46 minutes ago, dezz said:

Just wondered if anyone knew how the income from the group games is split up, is it 50/50 between the two teams involved or is it pooled & split between all the teams in the group. The way the draw works it could make quite a difference if you get drawn to play the better supported teams at either home or away since you only have one game against each team in your group.

 

 

I think I remember reading when the new format was announced that the receipts from all games in a group were pooled and then distributed evenly so should the smaller teams miss out on bigger attendances due to the home/away split they aren't disadvantaged financially.

 

Cannot remember where I read/heard it though so the above could be rubbish.

That would seem to be the fairest way but it would be unusual the ruling bodies to worry about fairness

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44 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

I think we could do with an extra round in this comp. Peterhead beating hearts yet failing to qualify. I would like to establish how much if anything clubs have made out of this . . The prize money must be nearly equivalent to the paying of wages for the extra weeks of pre-season training.

I was thinking this too. Have a second round where all 8 runners up play off against each other. The 4 with the best records could be seeded and have a home tie of you need to have seeding in this round. 

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5 hours ago, peternapper said:

Just wondered if anyone knew how the income from the group games is split up, is it 50/50 between the two teams involved or is it pooled & split between all the teams in the group. The way the draw works it could make quite a difference if you get drawn to play the better supported teams at either home or away since you only have one game against each team in your group.

Both clubs take out jut enough to cover their expenses. Anything left is split 50/50 and sent directly to Ibrox and Parkhead to save Doncaster the time and expense of doing it.

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4 minutes ago, 7-2 said:

Both clubs take out jut enough to cover their expenses. Anything left is split 50/50 and sent directly to Ibrox and Parkhead to save Doncaster the time and expense of doing it.

Suppose it could make sense to help the Old Firm finance Doncasters ultimate goal of them having a team in every league in the country. So far at least they have not been introduced to this or the Scottish cup. The challenge cup was the start & league places is the next goal.

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13 minutes ago, peternapper said:

Suppose it could make sense to help the Old Firm finance Doncasters ultimate goal of them having a team in every league in the country. So far at least they have not been introduced to this or the Scottish cup. The challenge cup was the start & league places is the next goal.

Tick tock tick tock...

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3 hours ago, dezz said:

Just wondered if anyone knew how the income from the group games is split up, is it 50/50 between the two teams involved or is it pooled & split between all the teams in the group. The way the draw works it could make quite a difference if you get drawn to play the better supported teams at either home or away since you only have one game against each team in your group.

 

 

I think I remember reading when the new format was announced that the receipts from all games in a group were pooled and then distributed evenly so should the smaller teams miss out on bigger attendances due to the home/away split they aren't disadvantaged financially.

 

Cannot remember where I read/heard it though so the above could be rubbish.

Don't know where you read that but it IS rubbish.

Each match in the groups is treated as an individual cup tie. The clubs agree the prices between one another and account to each other for the gate in the same way as if it had been a straight knock out game. Hence last year, both Annan and Stranraer got the benefit of a near 30,000 crowd at Ibrox whilst Motherwell and East Stirling got Rangers at home with far lower gates.

You couldn't reasonably have a pooled gate and redistribution unless you also had standard pricing across all the games in a group which clearly, with one exception, we didn't.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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Don't know where you read that but it IS rubbish.
Each match in the groups is treated as an individual cup tie. The clubs agree the prices between one another and account to each other for the gate in the same way as if it had been a straight knock out game. Hence last year, both Annan and Stranraer got the benefit of a near 30,000 crowd at Ibrox whilst Motherwell and East Stirling got Rangers at home with far lower gates.
You couldn't reasonably have a pooled gate and redistribution unless you also had standard pricing across all the games in a group which clearly, with one exception, we didn't.


Ah apologies - don't know where I got that from then. Our group this year did have uniform pricing so I guess it would be possible. It seems a completely unfair way to do it with some clubs missing out on big pay days because of the home/away split, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised really.

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5 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

You've got a point about the away draw. Though as others have said, guaranteeing the best four sides in the country a home tie in their first match against a team that's had to play four games to qualify seems a bit unfair as well.

They aren't guaranteed a home tie. The draw was made in such a way that 4 of the seeded and 4 of the unseeded got home ties.

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They aren't guaranteed a home tie. The draw was made in such a way that 4 of the seeded and 4 of the unseeded got home ties.

Yeah, I know that. I was saying people would claim it would be unfair if they were.

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It depends on how you're define "successful" of course... It's worked fine. It hasn't been a disaster. That arguably qualifies it as a success, although equally it hasn't been a rip-roaring one. It's different and it's ticked along fine.

Crowds are much poorer than league games. I haven't looked at this season closely enough yet, but last season they were also poorer than R1 & R2 crowds in the previous knockout format. However they're better than friendlies, which is enough to justify the exercise alongside selling some games for TV.


I must say that one clear marketing or PR success has been the penalty shootouts. They're almost totally irrelevant but they've still become a talking point and at times even a source of excitement. Last season they only actually made a difference in 1 case (Peterhead qualified instead of Dundee in Section A)... this season they only actually made a difference in 1 case (Ross County qualified instead of Peterhead in the best runnerup ranking after Dunfermline qualified instead of Peterhead in Section B). Maybe people will get wise to this or the novelty will wear-off, but the shoot-outs have appeared popular thusfar.


I'd agree with the comments about having an intermediate round before Last 16 (either with all 8 runners-up or sending top 3 in each section through).

That could reduce meaningless games and make it more realistic for part-time clubs to actually progress. Issue is that the Last 16 is only 1.5 weeks after the groups finish, so it would probably be unrealistic to fit that extra round it, other than by moving the later rounds back (which might in turn put the Final back into the spring). That said it's reported that UEFA are moving their dates back a week from next season, eliminating the free August midweek - so it may all need rejigged anyway.

Edited by HibeeJibee

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They aren't guaranteed a home tie. The draw was made in such a way that 4 of the seeded and 4 of the unseeded got home ties.

Why not make the 4 teams who have qualified for Europe have the away draws and the four teams who have qualified via the groups the home draws, or do I really need to ask?

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1 hour ago, Dunfermline Don said:


Why not make the 4 teams who have qualified for Europe have the away draws and the four teams who have qualified via the groups the home draws, or do I really need to ask?

I dont see particularly why the Euro qualified teams should be automatically drawn away without any chance of a home match. There's nothing "fair" about that either.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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I dont see particularly why the Euro qualified teams should be automatically drawn away without any chance of a home match. There's nothing "fair" abiut that either.

They've been given a freebie already.

Entering in the last 16 as a seeded side is a bit farcical.

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Just now, parsforlife said:


They've been given a freebie already.

Entering in the last 16 as a seeded side is a bit farcical.

They earned that "freebie", they didnt win it in a lottery. I just dont think its right that it would follow as an automatic away game. There probably isnt any entirely fair solution in the present format though.

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I dont see particularly why the Euro qualified teams should be automatically drawn away without any chance of a home match. There's nothing "fair" about that either.

It was really a tongue in cheek remark as certain teams always seem to have home draws in the cups

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No they earned Entry into European football, this should result in minimal impact on domestic competition, certainly not be given a massive helping hand

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2 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

I must say that one clear marketing or PR success has been the penalty shootouts. They're almost totally irrelevant but they've still become a talking point and at times even a source of excitement. Last season they only actually made a difference in 1 case (Peterhead qualified instead of Dundee in Section A)... this season they only actually made a difference in 1 case (Ross County qualified instead of Peterhead in the best runnerup ranking after Dunfermline qualified instead of Peterhead in Section B). Maybe people will get wise to this or the novelty will wear-off, but the shoot-outs have appeared popular thusfar.

Given the lack of understanding by United fans in the Dundee v Dundee Utd thread, it's a tad unfortunate that the SPFL chose penalties as the means of apportioning the bonus point. 

Actually, on a more serious point, maybe it would have been a good testbed for something a bit different. The bonus point in itself is something that neither FIFA nor UEFA recognise (but that's OK because the LC doesn't have a European place) so using a completely new method to allocate it could have been fun.

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I dont see particularly why the Euro qualified teams should be automatically drawn away without any chance of a home match. There's nothing "fair" about that either.


What's 'fair' about them not having to qualify for the last 16?

I think they have already been given a distinct advantage so see no reason why they need to be treated to the possibility of a home draw.

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I think we could do with an extra round in this comp. Peterhead beating hearts yet failing to qualify. I would like to establish how much if anything clubs have made out of this . . The prize money must be nearly equivalent to the paying of wages for the extra weeks of pre-season training.

Yep. I really dislike any competition where it's not clear what you need to do to progress at the start. Same issue with World Cup or euro qualifiers when the runners up don't necessarily qualify.
Have a playoff or something but second in the group should at least get you out of the group. Not third though - that would be daft....

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What's 'fair' about them not having to qualify for the last 16?

I think they have already been given a distinct advantage so see no reason why they need to be treated to the possibility of a home draw.


Seeds don't automatically get a home tie. I'd guarantee you that if the top four clubs weren't seeded, and the luck of the draw meant Ayr won the group and ended up playing Celtic, we'd be having the exact opposite conversation about how shite it is you can win a group and end up playing the strongest team in the Country.

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