Teachers of P&B

[mathematics]

2 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Classes are limited to 20, remember, in the sciences.
The issue causing a lot of angst at the moment is bi or tri level teaching.

Just wait till the new Applications of Maths Higher is introduced. 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

It does strike me as anomalous that for Primary teaching, you need Higher English, but Maths need only be at N5 level - some places even require only a C pass in it.

While it's true that no work at such heights is likely to be covered at Primary School, it does mean that many in the profession are likely to be less comfy around Numeracy, than they are around language.  It doesn't need a massive leap to see this reflected in the balance of skills many kids leave Primary with.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Monkey Tennis

[mathematics]

I know what you’re saying MT, but maybe the idea is that primary teachers will need to be able to communicate with kids AND adults, hence the requirement for English. They’re not going to need to know about vectors, trigonometry, and calculus.

I’m just guessing though.

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, mathematics said:

I know what you’re saying MT, but maybe the idea is that primary teachers will need to be able to communicate with kids AND adults, hence the requirement for English. They’re not going to need to know about vectors, trigonometry, and calculus.

I’m just guessing though.

Yes I can see why decent English qualifications are required, given that communication is pretty central.

Maths is the only other subject specified as an entry requirement though, but the bar is markedly lower.  I'm not convinced that it should be.

[mathematics]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes I can see why decent English qualifications are required, given that communication is pretty central.

Maths is the only other subject specified as an entry requirement though, but the bar is markedly lower.  I'm not convinced that it should be.

There’s a fair amount of research on why Higher Maths doesn’t have any effect on how good a primary teacher the holder is. Check out research by Stephen Day at UWS for a starting point.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 minutes ago, mathematics said:

There’s a fair amount of research on why Higher Maths doesn’t have any effect on how good a primary teacher the holder is. Check out research by Stephen Day at UWS for a starting point.

Fair enough.

If the anomaly is supported by research, I suppose that explains its existence.  

[Saigon Raider]

Teaching represents a brilliant career at this time of year.

Agreed, I am in the middle of 9 weeks off!!

[The_Kincardine]

3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It does strike me as anomalous that for Primary teaching, you need Higher English, but Maths need only be at N5 level - some places even require only a C pass in it.

While it's true that no work at such heights is likely to be covered at Primary School, it does mean that many in the profession are likely to be less comfy around Numeracy, than they are around language.  It doesn't need a massive leap to see this reflected in the balance of skills many kids leave Primary with.

Intuitively I'd tend to agree with you and I almost googled the research @mathematicsreferenced but my older two have now left school and my wee yin will be in her last year and was delighted to scrape by GCSE Maths.

I think, though, there are a couple of other factors, based purely on a representative sample of 3 kids.  1. It tends to be the more polished/experienced teachers who get to teach Years 5 and 6.  I doubt any school worth its salt would have a recently qualified teacher with a low result at N5 level teaching Year 6 Maths.  2. At the primary school my three went to they split Year 6 up for Maths based on ability with the higher achieving ones being 'hothoused' with a specialist maths teacher.

[mathematics]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Fair enough.

If the anomaly is supported by research, I suppose that explains its existence.  

That isn’t to say that the topic isn’t debated across the country, often at the highest level.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

Intuitively I'd tend to agree with you and I almost googled the research @mathematicsreferenced but my older two have now left school and my wee yin will be in her last year and was delighted to scrape by GCSE Maths.

I think, though, there are a couple of other factors, based purely on a representative sample of 3 kids.  1. It tends to be the more polished/experienced teachers who get to teach Years 5 and 6.  I doubt any school worth its salt would have a recently qualified teacher with a low result at N5 level teaching Year 6 Maths.  2. At the primary school my three went to they split Year 6 up for Maths based on ability with the higher achieving ones being 'hothoused' with a specialist maths teacher.

I don't think the Scottish experience would necessarily mirror that you outline for your own kids in England.  Once a teacher had qualified and been employed, I don't honestly think much attention would be paid to their own school results in assigning classes to them.

I probably sound like I'm making a lot of this, as if it's some scandal.

I really don't mean to.  The current set up actually suits my own family in terms of ambitions.  I just felt it was a bit anomalous.   On a selfish level though, it's an anomaly I actually welcome.  

[pandarilla]

I usually get a wee buzz of anticipation to go back to school at the end of the summer. Not feeling it this year. Maybe I'm on the long, slow decline to hating my job...

[Gaz]

On 08/07/2019 at 10:50, mathematics said:

I know a great deal of teachers, none are looking to quit. It’s clearly a very tough job though, particularly if you teach a STEM subject as the classes are getting bigger and the teachers are becoming fewer, no matter how much money/awareness the SG tried to throw at it.

No they're not.

I'm about to go into my eighth year of teaching, class sizes have stayed the same throughout all of that and are very unlikely to go up, given there's no way the SNCT would agree to it.

[super_carson]

I’m a primary teacher, and reading what people are saying about confidence in maths is definitely true. For example, the p7 teachers I worked with last year we’re often re-learning concepts as they were teaching them.

At the younger end of the school, SEAL maths is the latest trendy thing to be heralded in the last few years as the way to raise attainment. In a nutshell, it’s all about visualising and understanding number process and structures.

The problem is, that it was originally designed as a recovery program. It has some good results so many councils, Edinburgh being one of them, got all horny for it and expected us all to use it in early years. But different schools, clusters and authorities all have different ideas on how it should be used and to what extent. It just adds to the confusion and lack of confidence in teaching maths.

And don’t get me started on the state of primary school PE. My school has one tiny all, a sloping playground and that’s about it. Any space schools do have is often built upon due to increasing numbers of pupils. Then the quality of PE that I’ve seen is shocking.

Got major August back to school blue today.

[throbber]

I usually get a wee buzz of anticipation to go back to school at the end of the summer. Not feeling it this year. Maybe I'm on the long, slow decline to hating my job...

It must be awful having to go back to work after 6 weeks off in the summer. You poor thing.

[mathematics]

Algebra to degree standard? Do you even know what algebra to degree standard is?

[deej]

4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

Also, TBH I wuldnt want my kids taught fractions by someone who had not done algebra to degree standard.

Your English teacher must have been rubbish. 

[Shandon Par]

Is this the time to mention to oaksoft that @mathematics is the Muay Thai boss of P&B? Enjoy Ruel Street!  

[mathematics]

20 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yes.

It's a little odd that you have to ask this given you teach the bloody subject.

Why would someone who teaches fractions to children have to know about groups, rings and fields? About sets and subsets, homomorphisms, isomorphisms and a whole host of other algebra shite?

i don’t teach maths.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

6 hours ago, mathematics said:

Algebra to degree standard? Do you even know what algebra to degree standard is?

"If shite x has a volume of 25cm³ and has shite y and shite z placed upon it in your lavvy, calculate the maximum volumes of y and z before you get shite all over your bathroom floor, given a lavvy volume of 220 cm³"

[Mark Connolly]

3 hours ago, mathematics said:

Why would someone who teaches fractions to children have to know about groups, rings and fields? About sets and subsets, homomorphisms, isomorphisms and a whole host of other algebra shite?

i don’t teach maths.

Just as well, I didn't understand any of that stuff you said.