Teachers of P&B

[Ranaldo Bairn]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You seem to be missing my point, deliberately or otherwise.

I don't see how your first sentence ensures fairness for dear old LS at all.  His level of inferred attainment, as judged by his individual class teacher, will be considered in the context of how well that teacher's colleagues (in different subjects but the same building) have traditionally performed this function.  There are arbitrary elements to that surely?

No, they'll be compared to estimates in the same subject over time. This happens every year at procedures after the exam.

Most years, pupil performance shapes the wider attainment picture; this year it'll be required to fit it.

I don't want to overstate it.  I know that pass marks etc have always got shifted around to ensure a wider pattern is conformed to.  It's been based on actual performance in the past though, a luxury that won't exist this time.

I can foresee micro sacrifices being made, to ensure that something acceptable on a macro level emerges. Probably true, but almost completely unavoidable.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Is it not schools that are considered concordant (or not) rather than faculties or departments within them?

[Ranaldo Bairn]

Normally subjects are considered independently so I'd guess that would be the case here. We'll have to wait and see.

[madwullie]

Interesting article on tes about how school in Denmark is working since they've reopened. 

https://www.tes.com/news/what-it-denmarks-reopened-schools

Primary school btw

Edited April 23, 2020 by madwullie

[paul-r-cfc]

Anyone got a clear outline of what is happening next week? All our communications seem to be packed full of words but utterly lacking in any detail.

[Monkey Tennis]

When do the rest of you start your holidays?

We are losing six days, by being required to meet the 11th August date set by the Scottish government (which has now become the 10th to create two Inset days).  I appreciate that we've not exactly been business as usual lately, and that lots of working people are much worse off than us due to this virus, in all sorts of ways.  I also get that moaning about only getting five weeks holiday in mixed company might provoke violence.

Still a bit shit though.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

 

 

 

When do the rest of you start your holidays?

We are losing six days, by being required to meet the 11th August date set by the Scottish government (which has now become the 10th to create two Inset days).  I appreciate that we've not exactly been business as usual lately, and that lots of working people are much worse off than us due to this virus, in all sorts of ways.  I also get that moaning about only getting five weeks holiday in mixed company might provoke violence.

Still a bit shit though.

 

Dundee were meant to be back on 17 August.

 

Unofficially, from the SNCT, schools will have INSET on Tuesday 11 August with pupils back in on Wednesday 12 August. They are going to switch the holidays we lose (all 5 days) to the end of this session - we are meant to be off from 1 July 2021 but will be a week earlier.

 

If staff have holidays booked from 11 August these will be honoured (assuming travel companies proceed) - if the 14 day quarantine is still in place then staff with holiday return dates between 28 July and 16 August would work remotely for the 14 days (or part thereof that overlaps).

 

[David W]

47 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

When do the rest of you start your holidays?

We are losing six days, by being required to meet the 11th August date set by the Scottish government (which has now become the 10th to create two Inset days).  I appreciate that we've not exactly been business as usual lately, and that lots of working people are much worse off than us due to this virus, in all sorts of ways.  I also get that moaning about only getting five weeks holiday in mixed company might provoke violence.

Still a bit shit though.

It looks like we're going back for 2 in-service days on the 10th. An extra day at September, two at Christmas, and two still to be assigned (probably an earlier summer next year).

 

[Monkey Tennis]

That's interesting - two different responses.

I think we'll do something more like David W faces.  I don't really favour the odd day here and there to make up for it, but it's what I can see happening. 

There's been no evidence of a decision though, beyond one telling us that we definitely won't be getting the holidays to start early this session. Initially, that's exactly what we were told to expect, then there was an about-turn.  Apparently, we need the extra time in June, to prepare for August.  We've also been told that there are issues connected to how many days we work in a given session, meaning the time must come from the one affected - ie 2020/21.

It strikes me as stupid, because if a week or more must be shaved off somewhere, it surely makes more sense to take it from this half baked, poor imitation of school, than from something closer to the real thing.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Monkey Tennis

[HibeeJibee]

Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA 2022): Highlights from Scotland's Results - gov.scot (www.gov.scot)
Pisa rankings: Huge decline in Scotland’s performance in world education rankings (scotsman.com)
Scotland's education ranking falls in wake of Covid pandemic, PISA study finds | STV News

Today's global PISA scores of educational performance make grim reading...

Scottish reading attainment has fallen 7% in last 20yrs, and gone from being ahead of England to behind. Indeed we are now slightly below the world average.

Science also declined, and been overtaken by both England and Northern Ireland.

Maths is worst of all, having gone from above world average and comfortably best in UK - to way behind England, below world average and NI - despite additional investment:

Scottish education performance falling, says study - BBC News



Scotland's Pisa results: Severe declines in maths, science and reading shows 'Curriculum for Excellence' isn't working – Professor Lindsay Paterson (scotsman.com)

Since the last assessment in 2018, Scotland’s attainment has declined severely. In mathematics, it is down by the equivalent of nearly a whole year of schooling. That means that the typical 15-year-old now is doing no better than a 14-year-old in 2018. In reading, the decline amounts to half a year’s school work. In science, it is down by the equivalent of one school term.

In any case, the recent Scottish decline is not new. It dates in these studies from at least 2012. Between then and the latest study, the Scottish drop in mathematics was equivalent to about 16 months’ loss of schooling. In science, it was 18 months, and in reading it was 8 months.


Education minister blames disruption of 2020-2022 citing school closures and subsequent measures but these affected most nations? Plus later closures and prolonged restrictions were political choices.

Ultimately we're just under-performing for whatever reasons.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Children are our future.

[scottsdad]

1 hour ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:

Children are our future.

Teach them well and let them lead the way

[Melanius Mullarkey]

#gbnf

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Self love is the way forward.

[ICTChris]

PISA superintendents when they come to Scotland:

“Oh, I have had it. I have had it with this country, Scotland. The low test scores, class after class of ugly, *ugly* children!"

[Salvo Montalbano]

Not surprised at the low Maths scores. It's amazing the number of Primary colleagues I've met who "aren't good at maths" and just shrug it off, as if their lack of ability/confidence/enthusiasm for numeracy isn't going to rub off on the kids. I even had one Primary teacher tell me that they mostly did Maths on a Thursday and Friday afternoon as that's when they're quietest! Yes, because they're knackered and so won't learn anything. Ffs.

Also don't think it helps that the maths courses at National 3, 4 and 5 level are so different. This means that maths departments often have to make an early judgment call and stream or set from very early in S1 meaning the late developers, people moving schools, people who had poor experiences in Primary etc are dumped into bottom set classes and never get the chance to properly progress. Compare that to the Sciences, for instance where in many cases pretty much everyone might be kept in a National 5 class right up until the Prelim and only then drop down to National 4 and pick up any content they've not covered. 

[TxRover]

11 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA 2022): Highlights from Scotland's Results - gov.scot (www.gov.scot)
Pisa rankings: Huge decline in Scotland’s performance in world education rankings (scotsman.com)
Scotland's education ranking falls in wake of Covid pandemic, PISA study finds | STV News

Today's global PISA scores of educational performance make grim reading...

Scottish reading attainment has fallen 7% in last 20yrs, and gone from being ahead of England to behind. Indeed we are now slightly below the world average.

Science also declined, and been overtaken by both England and Northern Ireland.

Maths is worst of all, having gone from above world average and comfortably best in UK - to way behind England, below world average and NI - despite additional investment:

Scottish education performance falling, says study - BBC News



Scotland's Pisa results: Severe declines in maths, science and reading shows 'Curriculum for Excellence' isn't working – Professor Lindsay Paterson (scotsman.com)

Since the last assessment in 2018, Scotland’s attainment has declined severely. In mathematics, it is down by the equivalent of nearly a whole year of schooling. That means that the typical 15-year-old now is doing no better than a 14-year-old in 2018. In reading, the decline amounts to half a year’s school work. In science, it is down by the equivalent of one school term.

In any case, the recent Scottish decline is not new. It dates in these studies from at least 2012. Between then and the latest study, the Scottish drop in mathematics was equivalent to about 16 months’ loss of schooling. In science, it was 18 months, and in reading it was 8 months.


Education minister blames disruption of 2020-2022 citing school closures and subsequent measures but these affected most nations? Plus later closures and prolonged restrictions were political choices.

Ultimately we're just under-performing for whatever reasons.

 

[parsforlife]

7 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Not surprised at the low Maths scores. It's amazing the number of Primary colleagues I've met who "aren't good at maths" and just shrug it off, as if their lack of ability/confidence/enthusiasm for numeracy isn't going to rub off on the kids. I even had one Primary teacher tell me that they mostly did Maths on a Thursday and Friday afternoon as that's when they're quietest! Yes, because they're knackered and so won't learn anything. Ffs.

Also don't think it helps that the maths courses at National 3, 4 and 5 level are so different. This means that maths departments often have to make an early judgment call and stream or set from very early in S1 meaning the late developers, people moving schools, people who had poor experiences in Primary etc are dumped into bottom set classes and never get the chance to properly progress. Compare that to the Sciences, for instance where in many cases pretty much everyone might be kept in a National 5 class right up until the Prelim and only then drop down to National 4 and pick up any content they've not covered. 

Feel both points,  the ‘maths is hard lol’ rhetoric is ingrained in our culture, it goes beyond primary teachers, I can’t remember the exact study but when you look at 99% of our news reporters, tv hosts etc little have a background in maths/science and most underperformed against their peers.

Edit- you need a higher B in English to join a primary school teacher undergrad but just need a pass at Nat 5 for maths, how that’s encouraging those good at maths to spread their knowledge and understanding to the next generation?

On sets, and we are going back to where we were supposedly doing well, I moved back from being in the English system(and performing fairly well) they saw I had some learning difficulties and I was basically written off in the backwards mindset of being the dumb kid and chucked in all bottom sets.  Nobody bothered their arse to look at previous performances and it took months of me proving how easy it was (I remember one lesson after being severely bored out my pus being given a series of exercises that we we’re expected to complete 5 questions or so, and to attempt the next 5 if we had time, I did all 10 within minutes and got the whole you can’t be done yet questioning before my work was checked and proved correct)

I was fortunate that said teacher was the head of department and could take more action than some(even if it was still slow as f**k) and also I had parents who would fight my corner hard,  resulting in me also by that age also knowing how to hold my own, many don’t have that

I kinda agree with the concept of sets tho, where they are appropriately selected they work much better than general classes where you work to the pace of the slowest individual, but you really need to work hard to make sure sets are appropriately selected and allow for easy adjustments where appropriate.

Edited December 6, 2023 by parsforlife

[jimbaxters]

12 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Not surprised at the low Maths scores. It's amazing the number of Primary colleagues I've met who "aren't good at maths" and just shrug it off, as if their lack of ability/confidence/enthusiasm for numeracy isn't going to rub off on the kids. I even had one Primary teacher tell me that they mostly did Maths on a Thursday and Friday afternoon as that's when they're quietest! Yes, because they're knackered and so won't learn anything. Ffs.

Also don't think it helps that the maths courses at National 3, 4 and 5 level are so different. This means that maths departments often have to make an early judgment call and stream or set from very early in S1 meaning the late developers, people moving schools, people who had poor experiences in Primary etc are dumped into bottom set classes and never get the chance to properly progress. Compare that to the Sciences, for instance where in many cases pretty much everyone might be kept in a National 5 class right up until the Prelim and only then drop down to National 4 and pick up any content they've not covered. 

I teach Maths in an international school in Italy and have never taught it in the UK. Can I ask if schools follow a program? White Rose Maths is excellent and should be foolproof even for foolish teachers.

[hk blues]

37 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

I teach Maths in an international school in Italy and have never taught it in the UK. Can I ask if schools follow a program? White Rose Maths is excellent and should be foolproof even for foolish teachers.

My son was doing Singaporean maths in his previous school - may or may not have been a good system but it was difficult for me to help him with his homework as I had never used the system and it seemed very 'cumbersome.'  To be fair, the new school doesn't follow the Singaporean method and I still struggle to help him!