The Albion Rovers Thread

[an86]

1 hour ago, Aloysius Snuffleupagus said:

I'm afraid the Clyde fan is the closest to the mark here. The Rangers earnings went mainly on wages to obtain and then maintain League One status. The terrace was built on donations, both material and labour.

The Celtic game was different; the money had been pissed away by then and more with it, so it went on clearing debt.

Out of interest, how much did the terrace cost? Fear we're going to end up with a one stand effort at Lesser. 

[Aloysius Snuffleupagus]

52 minutes ago, The Pastmaster said:

not all of it by far .... the club are still saddled with that crazy loan from Shawbrook Bank at 30% plus interest which wont be paid off until 2020

I never said it cleared all of it...

[Aloysius Snuffleupagus]

51 minutes ago, an86 said:

Out of interest, how much did the terrace cost? Fear we're going to end up with a one stand effort at Lesser. 

Given the way it was funded, I doubt there any figures on that. However, what I do now is that the consents needed for any work are far easier to obtain if the structure is six steps or less.

[Owsley]

2 hours ago, Aloysius Snuffleupagus said:

I'm afraid the Clyde fan is the closest to the mark here. The Rangers earnings went mainly on wages to obtain and then maintain League One status. The terrace was built on donations, both material and labour.

The Celtic game was different; the money had been pissed away by then and more with it, so it went on clearing debt.

Fair enough, but three seasons in the third tier is not to be sniffed at. More of a concern is what happened to all the gate money for healthy crowds against Airdrie, Ayr and Dunfermline? Why were you reduced to recruiting players from the third tier of the juniors? Does anyone know why the Dunlops opted to drop down a division?

[an86]

3 minutes ago, Aloysius Snuffleupagus said:

Given the way it was funded, I doubt there any figures on that. However, what I do now is that the consents needed for any work are far easier to obtain if the structure is six steps or less.

Interesting. I suspect the club would rather go for a one stand stand format for ease of maintenance. A majority of fans I've spoken to want some form a terracing, though. 

[the_bully_wee]

2 minutes ago, Owsley said:

Fair enough, but three seasons in the third tier is not to be sniffed at. More of a concern is what happened to all the gate money for healthy crowds against Airdrie, Ayr and Dunfermline? Why were you reduced to recruiting players from the third tier of the juniors? Does anyone know why the Dunlops opted to drop down a division?

It is to be sniffed at when those three seasons are the result of wholly unsustainable levels of spending which put the club's very existence at peril just five years down the line. Without knowing a huge amount about affairs at Rovers, it's clear to anyone that Cliftonhill - for all its charm - is a liability to the club at this point. In my opinion, the best move the club could've made with their windfalls would have been installing and renting out a plastic pitch a la Stenhousemuir (bringing a sustainable income, and also sorting out a perennially dreadful park) and making any possible improvements to the wider stadium and its facilities over and above that. As a club which has an ageing - and fairly small - base of extremely loyal fans, was it worth winning a bottom-tier title and achieving a few mid-placed finishes in the league above when it put the club in such a critical position? That's a matter of opinion, but I wouldn't say so.

It's probably fair to assume (though it is only an assumption) that Rovers generally run on a deficit, in no small part due to the ever-increasing costs of maintaining a stadium which is fast becoming - if it isn't already - unfit for purpose. The gate money from those crowds likely went into the playing budget, in line with the club's philosophy of recent years. Addressing your earlier point, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a club showing ambition - Trouten was a great signing for them and without his goals they'd have been buried in double-time; what is wrong, though, is pissing money up against the wall when it puts a small, widely-popular club, with some of the most loyal supporters you could imagine, in the position they are in at the moment. Their squad wasn't actually THAT bad last season, but by all accounts it was a squad built to play football on a Cliftonhill pitch which simply does not facilitate the passing game; that was borne out by their absolutely woeful home form throughout the season. 

Their recruitment during the summer (both in terms of backroom staff and the squad) was defined almost entirely by budget. No manager worth his salt, or prospective manager of any pedigree for that matter, would want to take over at a relegated club with - by some distance - the smallest budget in the league. Brogan was a bargain-bin, hopeless appointment, and on a meagre budget he signed a similarly bargain-bin, hopeless group of players who, for all their manful effort, simply are not good enough to compete at this level of the game. 

The Dunlops - who knows? Maybe Mick fancied trying to win more accolades at the tail-end of his career, or they both just fancied a change of scenery? I wasn't surprised to see Rovers struggling last season, though, with a defence featuring Scott McLaughlin and Ross Perry. 

[Aloysius Snuffleupagus]

19 minutes ago, Owsley said:

Fair enough, but three seasons in the third tier is not to be sniffed at. More of a concern is what happened to all the gate money for healthy crowds against Airdrie, Ayr and Dunfermline? Why were you reduced to recruiting players from the third tier of the juniors? Does anyone know why the Dunlops opted to drop down a division?

Gate money went on unsustainable wages.

Third-tier juniors was a mixture of drastic budget cuts; a decision to maintain a reserve squad [and the requisite extra players] but mainly being sold Snake Oil by Brogan The Junior Whisperer. Of particular note on the latter was the promise that he'd bring in the best keeper in the Juniors... who turned out to be four stone overweight and unable to train during the week.

Dunlop's was down to Brian Kerr feeling Mick was past it and only offering a contract to Ross. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

16 minutes ago, Aloysius Snuffleupagus said:

Gate money went on unsustainable wages.

Third-tier juniors was a mixture of drastic budget cuts; a decision to maintain a reserve squad [and the requisite extra players] but mainly being sold Snake Oil by Brogan The Junior Whisperer. Of particular note on the latter was the promise that he'd bring in the best keeper in the Juniors... who turned out to be four stone overweight and unable to train during the week.

Dunlop's was down to Brian Kerr feeling Mick was past it and only offering a contract to Ross. 

Circumstances have conspired I'm sure, but what now?

I see a few potential solutions, none of which will be that palatable. But the alternative might be seen as worse.

[Aloysius Snuffleupagus]

16 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Circumstances have conspired I'm sure, but what now?

I see a few potential solutions, none of which will be that palatable. But the alternative might be seen as worse.

I'm not sure circumstances have conspired. Basically, we are where we are due to poor decision making.

As for what now, apparently there's money been found to bring in up to eight players to save the season. However, I see nothing that suggests we won't be in a similar position again in future years. As you point out above; 145 through the gate is unsustainable.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, Aloysius Snuffleupagus said:

I'm not sure circumstances have conspired. Basically, we are where we are due to poor decision making.

As for what now, apparently there's money been found to bring in up to eight players to save the season. However, I see nothing that suggests we won't be in a similar position again in future years. As you point out above; 145 through the gate is unsustainable.

The wrong people making bad decisions is circumstances. There's not much point in blame.

[Yoda8]

145 sums up where ARFC is as a club.

going out the leagues & possibly existence with a whimper.

The board for the last 2 seasons have placed too much emphasis on clearing debt than on park. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 minutes ago, Yoda8 said:

145 sums up where ARFC is as a club.

going out the leagues & possibly existence with a whimper.

The board for the last 2 seasons have placed too much emphasis on clearing debt than on park. 

What would you have done?

[Newmember]

The Clubs fucked might go to the wall

[cowdenbeath]

2 hours ago, Yoda8 said:

145 sums up where ARFC is as a club.

going out the leagues & possibly existence with a whimper.

The board for the last 2 seasons have placed too much emphasis on clearing debt than on park. 

They maybe didn't have any option.

[haufdaft]

I'm afraid the Clyde fan is the closest to the mark here. The Rangers earnings went mainly on wages to obtain and then maintain League One status. The terrace was built on donations, both material and labour.
The Celtic game was different; the money had been pissed away by then and more with it, so it went on clearing debt.

Not to mention "pay what you want" season ticket and match entry as well as generous charity donations.

[Yoda8]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

What would you have done?

There’s got to be a balancing act. If you don’t spend money on Park then you end up bottom of league and it becomes false economy.  If rovers go down they lose the Spfl money then they won’t be able to service any debt.

You wouldn’t pay all your wages towards clearing your mortgage early to sit in the house with no TV or couch 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Yoda8

[Yoda8]

15 minutes ago, haufdaft said:

Not to mention "pay what you want" season ticket and match entry as well as generous charity donations.

It might not have worked out well but surely the club should’ve been applauded for trying something new. 

While i agree the £10,000 to cash for kids looks foolish now but are we really having a go at club for giving to charity.

im no finance expert but maybe that reduced tax bill or something. 

[haufdaft]

It might not have worked out well but surely the club should’ve been applauded for trying something new. 
While i agree the £10,000 to cash for kids looks foolish now but are we really having a go at club for giving to charity.
im no finance expert but maybe that reduced tax bill or something. 

Both were laudible.
Both were foolish.
Both were ultimately negligent in regard to the future wellbeing of the club.

This is not hindsight. I thought it at the time.

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 hours ago, Yoda8 said:

There’s got to be a balancing act. If you don’t spend money on Park then you end up bottom of league and it becomes false economy.  If rovers go down they lose the Spfl money then they won’t be able to service any debt.

You wouldn’t pay all your wages towards clearing your mortgage early to sit in the house with no TV or couch 

Was there enough money that splitting it would make a substantial impact on either problem?

[Diamond8]

You can almost be certain that the banks will ask for the loans to be paid back pronto and overdrafts to be cleared almost straight away, should you lose your SPFL status. Is there a plan in action for that?