The Albion Rovers Thread

[Aloysius Snuffleupagus]

3 hours ago, The Pastmaster said:

Duplicity on Brogan`s part......no wonder Fisher wants out

Woah! How do you know any of that is true? 

Anyway, to yesterday's game, and my first sight of the new-look Rovers. Clearly, they're set up for 0-0 draws as when their defensive resistance finally crumbled just after the half hour, all the heads went down. They'd actually looked solid enough to that point, but one silly pass from the boy from Rangers (Gray) put a follow loanee (Donaldson?) in trouble and it was 1-0 with little chance of a recovery.

Why was there little chance of a recovery? Well, the whole attacking strategy seems to be for the keeper to kick it into the midfield for a a headed knock-on (normally from McGeouch) and young Cunningham then looks for scraps. There is little attempt to play out through wing-backs, and the midfield's role seems to be to win the ball back, as they normally only get it from the opposition. I believe the correct description for this type of football is 'direct', and I can't say I'm looking forward to much more of it.

Rovers Man of the Match was Cunningham, if only for how hard he worked trying to make the game plan work. I'm sure that when we do score it will be through him. However, I'm not sure that will be next week or even this month, and we do run the risk of being on national [U.K] news bulletins and 'magazine' programs soon; six competitive games without a goal is disgraceful, no matter the opposition.

Seriously, we really are deep in the shit here, and I don't think any of us sees a way out other than through the trapdoor 

[Yoda8]

5 hours ago, Aloysius Snuffleupagus said:

Woah! How do you know any of that is true? 

Anyway, to yesterday's game, and my first sight of the new-look Rovers. Clearly, they're set up for 0-0 draws as when their defensive resistance finally crumbled just after the half hour, all the heads went down. They'd actually looked solid enough to that point, but one silly pass from the boy from Rangers (Gray) put a follow loanee (Donaldson?) in trouble and it was 1-0 with little chance of a recovery.

Why was there little chance of a recovery? Well, the whole attacking strategy seems to be for the keeper to kick it into the midfield for a a headed knock-on (normally from McGeouch) and young Cunningham then looks for scraps. There is little attempt to play out through wing-backs, and the midfield's role seems to be to win the ball back, as they normally only get it from the opposition. I believe the correct description for this type of football is 'direct', and I can't say I'm looking forward to much more of it.

Rovers Man of the Match was Cunningham, if only for how hard he worked trying to make the game plan work. I'm sure that when we do score it will be through him. However, I'm not sure that will be next week or even this month, and we do run the risk of being on national [U.K] news bulletins and 'magazine' programs soon; six competitive games without a goal is disgraceful, no matter the opposition.

Seriously, we really are deep in the shit here, and I don't think any of us sees a way out other than through the trapdoor 

I thought Cunningham was best player also though did miss a good chance.

Had a decent touch and held up ok with what little service he got.

however he ain’t go run away from anyone which if relying on route 1 football , you need striker with pace.

Gracie not the answer either 

[Yoda8]

9 hours ago, Vodka Vic said:

Don't see why this is all Brogan's fault. Should never be there in the first place. Also don't see the point in shouting at the players either. It's not their fault.

Can I ask who you think should be shouted at Vic?

Or are you Vic the pacifist? 

[LongTimeLurker]

Not sure a junior signing strategy is necessarily a bad idea. Clyde made it work at one point when Ronnie Macdonald was running the show there after being the money behind Maryhill Juniors prior to that. Think the problem is that the budget wasn't there to match the very top west superleague sides financially and tempt the cream of the crop in juniors terms away.

[The Pastmaster]

48 minutes ago, Yoda8 said:

Can I ask who you think should be shouted at Vic?

Or are you Vic the pacifist? 

Back in the darkest days of the Tommy Fagan era...particularly at Stirling Albion after Ralph Brand was fired (we lost 0-7) the shout was `sack the board`

Edited August 12, 2018 by The Pastmaster

[Yoda8]

3 minutes ago, The Pastmaster said:

Back in the darkest days of the Tommy Fagan era...particularly at Stirling Albion after Raloh Brand was fired (we lost 0-7) the shout was `sack the board`

This is a darker era for me, no relegation then.

This board are miles off it.

The chairman may have stepped up to the plate and we should be forever grateful but we’re on the road to extinction if nobody is brought on board who knows a thing about football.

The fans deserve some explaining around the appointment.

I heard 4 man committee was interviewing. the chairman , Craig Downs (what even is his background that he should be elevated to picking manager, he was taking young kids team) Lyndsay Hamilton , remember him? Another person who came and went and nobody knows what he done and why he left. 

A fans rep was also on committee I hear but not sure of name. 

What questions were asked of Brogan , style & recruitment.  If he has said juniors then did any of the committee know much about the junior game? I can’t imagine any of them did , because they’d have known the top juniors pay way more than Rovers.

So that leaves us with them knowing that he was goin to sign 2nd or 3rd tier players. That should be enough to know he shouldn’t have got job or interviewers shouldn’t be in job. They even forgot to ask about coaching badges ffs. 

Is the managers ongoing coaching courses that he’s been forced to pay coming out the playing budget ? 

[vikingTON]

47 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not sure a junior signing strategy is necessarily a bad idea. Clyde made it work at one point when Ronnie Macdonald was running the show there after being the money behind Maryhill Juniors prior to that. Think the problem is that the budget wasn't there to match the very top west superleague sides financially and tempt the cream of the crop in juniors terms away.

That was fully twenty years ago when there wasn't a stack of senior leagues forming a pyramid beneath the national leagues. The idea that the Juniors offer some hidden treasure trove of players has been tried and inevitable failed at several SPFL clubs since. 

At least Albion Rovers can at least cite 'desperation' as a mitigating factor as opposed to just being wedded to a redundant view of how the Scottish game operates. 

[Tutankhamen]

Can anybody explain the extinction scenario, in the event of not beating a Cove Rangers/East Kilbride in a two legged play off, why would the club go extinct?

East Stirling haven't went extinct.

 

[Yoda8]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

That was fully twenty years ago when there wasn't a stack of senior leagues forming a pyramid beneath the national leagues. The idea that the Juniors offer some hidden treasure trove of players has been tried and inevitable failed at several SPFL clubs since. 

At least Albion Rovers can at least cite 'desperation' as a mitigating factor as opposed to just being wedded to a redundant view of how the Scottish game operates. 

This isn’t out of desperation, this is out incompetence of employing someone who hasn’t been involved in senior game for 22 years.

The manager doesn’t know the players in league 1 or 2 as he’s been involved in juniors. 

The fact that he’s brought in 3 very young loans and thinks that’s the answer tells us all we need to know

[Yoda8]

2 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Can anybody explain the extinction scenario, in the event of not beating a Cove Rangers/East Kilbride in a two legged play off, why would the club go extinct?

East Stirling haven't went extinct.

 

The club are in debt and struggle to pay its debts with League & 3 SPFL monies, so don’t think it’s far fetched to think that Lowland league money will enable them to keep up payments.

Maybe they could survive but as a footballing nomad like East Stirling as in event of insolvency the ground would be sold 

[Vodka Vic]

1 hour ago, Yoda8 said:

Can I ask who you think should be shouted at Vic?

Or are you Vic the pacifist? 

Have a guess?

Shout at the players all want - it will make zero difference.

[Yoda8]

1 minute ago, Vodka Vic said:

Have a guess?

Shout at the players all want - it will make zero difference.

I just think the board seem to be bullet proof among fans.

Never hear serious questions being asked if it 

[1320Lichtie]

In regards to the junior thing, I think the senior game has come on leaps and bounds in regards to professionalism and fitness the last 10 year. Obviously still talent to be found but signing such a large amount of them to make up your squad was never going to end well.

[airdrieman]

36 minutes ago, Yoda8 said:

This is a darker era for me, no relegation then.

This board are miles off it.

The chairman may have stepped up to the plate and we should be forever grateful but we’re on the road to extinction if nobody is brought on board who knows a thing about football.

The fans deserve some explaining around the appointment.

I heard 4 man committee was interviewing. the chairman , Craig Downs (what even is his background that he should be elevated to picking manager, he was taking young kids team) Lyndsay Hamilton , remember him? Another person who came and went and nobody knows what he done and why he left. 

A fans rep was also on committee I hear but not sure of name. 

What questions were asked of Brogan , style & recruitment.  If he has said juniors then did any of the committee know much about the junior game? I can’t imagine any of them did , because they’d have known the top juniors pay way more than Rovers.

So that leaves us with them knowing that he was goin to sign 2nd or 3rd tier players. That should be enough to know he shouldn’t have got job or interviewers shouldn’t be in job. They even forgot to ask about coaching badges ffs. 

Is the managers ongoing coaching courses that he’s been forced to pay coming out the playing budget ? 

Was just going to ask something similar. Baffles me that seemingly Ian Murray can be interviewed about the job but it's given to John Brogan unless Murray said thanks but no thanks for whatever reason. 

[Tutankhamen]

23 hours ago, Yoda8 said:

The club are in debt and struggle to pay its debts with League & 3 SPFL monies, so don’t think it’s far fetched to think that Lowland league money will enable them to keep up payments.

Maybe they could survive but as a footballing nomad like East Stirling as in event of insolvency the ground would be sold 

Admit i don't know what kind of debt Rovers are in. One of the biggest teams in the Junior world offloaded a social club with debts of £130,000 after it was running for 40 years. (As told to me by a Pollok committee man) Pollok got rid of it before it got rid of Pollok. Whispers have abounded for years of them selling the ground. Price of land in Shawlands/Newlands v the middle of Coatbridge? 

Support wise, would the core Coatbridge support go down in the event of relegation?

[The Pastmaster]

1 hour ago, Yoda8 said:

This is a darker era for me, no relegation then.

This board are miles off it.

The chairman may have stepped up to the plate and we should be forever grateful but we’re on the road to extinction if nobody is brought on board who knows a thing about football.

The fans deserve some explaining around the appointment.

I heard 4 man committee was interviewing. the chairman , Craig Downs (what even is his background that he should be elevated to picking manager, he was taking young kids team) Lyndsay Hamilton , remember him? Another person who came and went and nobody knows what he done and why he left. 

A fans rep was also on committee I hear but not sure of name. 

What questions were asked of Brogan , style & recruitment.  If he has said juniors then did any of the committee know much about the junior game? I can’t imagine any of them did , because they’d have known the top juniors pay way more than Rovers.

So that leaves us with them knowing that he was goin to sign 2nd or 3rd tier players. That should be enough to know he shouldn’t have got job or interviewers shouldn’t be in job. They even forgot to ask about coaching badges ffs. 

Is the managers ongoing coaching courses that he’s been forced to pay coming out the playing budget ? 

Of course you are right no trap door in the 70s. As for Hamilton, he was to be taking over as Chairman - was also an ex pro `keeper - Alloa if I remember correctly. Left because he could not get guarantees regarding financial `legacy` issues. Downs - yes is / was running a kids team but was also used to running big construction projects globally so he would be used to recruiting / managing people. We need folks with business acumen on the BOD not `well intentioned` amatuers. Never heard about a fans rep on the selection `panel`.  BTW Downs resigned tonight apparently asking too many `challenging` questions - and not getting answers.  Chairman was in the local paper at the weekend asking for the support of the fans and the community - Hamilton and Downs - both members of the latter going sends out all the wrong messages to the business community.  There is more to running a football club - which is just another form of business - than just having folks on the BOD who know about football. Trying to balance the books, working with VAt and other tax issues, knowing where to get funding etc etc is important too. In close I will re-quote your second line.

`The chairman may have stepped up to the plate and we should be forever grateful but we’re on the road to extinction if nobody is brought on board who knows a thing about football.`..........or running a business !

[cmontheloknow]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

In regards to the junior thing, I think the senior game has come on leaps and bounds in regards to professionalism and fitness the last 10 year. Obviously still talent to be found but signing such a large amount of them to make up your squad was never going to end well.

It's not the number, it's the quality. Junior football in the West is 4 tiers. As with the SPFL, usually the best players play at the top, the worst at the bottom. Of the 9 players signed direct from Junior clubs (as opposed to 3 who had loans last season), only one came direct from the top division, Bryan Wharton. A few others have played, recently or otherwise, at that level. But in the main this is a lower league Junior select with players from Cambuslang (top division now, granted), Wishaw, Larkhall, Perthshire etc... The players that would allow Rovers to compete to a greater degree are signed up with the likes of Beith, Talbot, Pollok etc... That's generally why the bigger teams beat the smaller ones in cup ties. Queen's Park play the Junior market well. The players are there but it's also a possibility the good ones have played at a higher level and have dropped down for whatever of a number of reasons (i.e. Wharton - fell out with QP, signed for Lok, back Senior witin 6 months). It's rare to find a totally undiscovered gem. Josh Mullin mentioned up the thread - signed by Rovers from Kilbirnie but he'd been senior before .

Edited August 12, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[holsten]

And there lies the rub on the above post which is spot on as a top junior player will be easily on £150 minimum p.w. and that's too much for your budget 

[Yoda8]

2 hours ago, The Pastmaster said:

Of course you are right no trap door in the 70s. As for Hamilton, he was to be taking over as Chairman - was also an ex pro `keeper - Alloa if I remember correctly. Left because he could not get guarantees regarding financial `legacy` issues. Downs - yes is / was running a kids team but was also used to running big construction projects globally so he would be used to recruiting / managing people. We need folks with business acumen on the BOD not `well intentioned` amatuers. Never heard about a fans rep on the selection `panel`.  BTW Downs resigned tonight apparently asking too many `challenging` questions - and not getting answers.  Chairman was in the local paper at the weekend asking for the support of the fans and the community - Hamilton and Downs - both members of the latter going sends out all the wrong messages to the business community.  There is more to running a football club - which is just another form of business - than just having folks on the BOD who know about football. Trying to balance the books, working with VAt and other tax issues, knowing where to get funding etc etc is important too. In close I will re-quote your second line.

`The chairman may have stepped up to the plate and we should be forever grateful but we’re on the road to extinction if nobody is brought on board who knows a thing about football.`..........or running a business !

I fully agree with everything you’ve said but when it comes to appointing a football team manager then the people interviewing him don’t need to know too much about VAT etc, if the business people do projections, cash flow etc etc then they’ve done their bit, the people who interview for managers position should have a knowledge of football.

They clearly don’t have any knowledge of the game or didn’t ask the correct questions. Either way whoever voted for current manager and/or signing policy are culpable.

Hamilton knew the club situation before coming in, he’s had friends involved feeding him  information.

i think coming in is more of an ego trip than wanting to do the best for the club.

lets face it,nobody is gonna come in and get rich from the club. The only ones who will is the major shareholders in the event of an insolvency.

Downs leaving is disappointing for the work he done in community , nothing against the man but he shouldn’t have been picking manager.

If your getting info from him then perhaps  you could do us all a favour and find out why he voted for JB when there were far better qualified people interviewed. 

[Yoda8]

39 minutes ago, holsten said:

And there lies the rub on the above post which is spot on as a top junior player will be easily on £150 minimum p.w. and that's too much for your budget 

Exactly, saw Rovers fans wanting Gemmel brought back without understanding that Camby are paying players £150 plus per week and have a few ex senior players who would all have done a job in L2