The Pyramid: A Proposed Structure

[Hillonearth]

If the development leagues are any barometer, it's not like bringing in 'B' teams will bring any improvement to the Scottish game.

Watching most of them, it's clear the majority of the players involved are destined not to make it and are on borrowed time prior to being freed to find their true level in the lower SPFL divisions, nonleague football or even out of the game altogether by 22 or 23.By the time they're 19 or 20, the cream of the crop - the ones at all likely to be future internationals - are already knocking on the door of most first teams, so the argument that the inclusion of 'B' teams would somehow help the international team doesn't hold much water. The current development system in most cases isn't much more than the waiting room for the knackers' yard.

If they were likely to bring in substantial crowds at non-league/lower SPFL level then perhaps, but all the evidence - attendances at development games and the Challenge Cup experiment last season - would suggest that's not the case.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

I don't expect anyone to copy Clyde. We'd have far fewer fans if we started playing B teams every other week though, as would the vast majority of clubs in our league.

 

More than enough reason to oppose B teams.

 

In any case I'm struggling to see the logic...

 

Young players play for their B teams against other B teams = bad.

 

Young players go on loan and play for first teams against other first teams = bad.

 

Young players play for their B teams against first teams = World Cup triumph in the bag.

 

How does that work?

 

 

I’m not really here to talk about B teams since I’m not really that interested or know enough about it, but clearly the U20 system doesn’t currently work very well, many coaches within the game say as much.

Whether B teams go some way to addressing that I don’t know, I would suspect only a handful of clubs could afford to run a fully fledged B team anyway.

Maybe we should bring back Reserve team fitba, do away with the U20 “Development” stuff and have a combination of fringe first teamers and youth players kicking lumps out of each other.

Anyway, that’s a whole different subject which no doubt has its own thread somewhere on P&B.

[Bully Wee Villa]

It does, in fairness, so I'll leave it be.

[parsforlife]

. I happen to like junior football, I've followed it since I was a young boy,. If I wanted to watch senior football I would but I choose to follow junior football that's lasted all these years without this nonsense. I take it you see Kelty,linlithgow or Bo'ness as potential Scottish cup winners in the future

What do you enjoy about junior football that you would lose under a pyramid system? Be specific.

I'm not sure what the Scottish cup comment is about, should clubs only enter competitions they have a good chance of wining?

[daleboy1969]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

You asked where all the noise is and I told you, the Champions two out of the last three seasons have gone, Bo’ness haven’t been shy at stating their intent to follow them, and it isn’t fantasy to imagine that the other two mentioned clubs may follow them in a couple of years time (amongst others). That’s your four biggest clubs in the East Region, the Pyramid “nonsense” isn’t going away. What will Armadale do if that happens?

Blackburn supporters wont be paying £10 to watch a game as not even the Lowland League charges that, and we won’t be playing at that level anytime soon. Clubs in the East of Scotland League that Kelty are moving to charge as low as £3.00, they are Senior clubs, as are Kelty now.  

Do you actually appreciate that if Junior clubs joined the Pyramid, very little would change for most, including Armadale and Blackburn, but that there would be no more glass ceiling preventing ambitious clubs from trying for promotion to the LL and SPFL if they wanted to? no more division, no more reinstatement, maybe it will lead to a game that’s run a bit more professionally than we have now.

.Kelty season tickets on sale for £130. On the website. 

 

If the riches in the EOS league are so large why have Easthouse and craigroyston both left for the juniors ( with others I hear kean)  and why don't these clubs have super facilities?  

 

If you don't like the junior set up leave, simple solution.

[parsforlife]

Kelly aren't charging £10 a game. They are changing exactly the same as last year

 

[daleboy1969]

17 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

 

What do you enjoy about junior football that you would lose under a pyramid system? Be specific.

I'm not sure what the Scottish cup comment is about, should clubs only enter competitions they have a good chance of wining?

 

I have no issue with the Pyramid system, however the argument that we will lose good clubs if we don't join the party is utter nonsense. If the clubs are as good as they think they are they will climb the leagues and match who? The mighty Stranraer or Elgin, true they might become the next Ross County but there's s good chance they will become another meaningless club and the junior big boys like pollock,Auchinleck and lithgy would no longer have the glorious silverware laden team pics that the supporters want. If you want to join the Pyramid leave junior football and go in search of your dream EASY. I'll see you at kettles first champions league home game. 

[parsforlife]

I have no issue with the Pyramid system, however the argument that we will lose good clubs if we don't join the party is utter nonsense. If the clubs are as good as they think they are they will climb the leagues and match who? The mighty Stranraer or Elgin, true they might become the next Ross County but there's s good chance they will become another meaningless club and the junior big boys like pollock,Auchinleck and lithgy would no longer have the glorious silverware laden team pics that the supporters want. If you want to join the Pyramid leave junior football and go in search of your dream EASY. I'll see you at kettles first champions league home game. 

Another meaningless club? No less meaningless than they are currently.

 

It's unbelievably arrogant to call good local clubs like Stranraer and Elgin meaningless.

 

They attract:

 

More fans

Better players

Larger sponsorship money

Greater media attention

 

Than nearly every single junior club, those are facts. That's not to say junior clubs are meaningless, every club has a place in the game, the pyramid is mearly about finding that, on an ongoing basis, without artificial barriers.

[rednblack]

Artificial or not those barriers have been there for well over 100 years, all well you coming onto a junior forum when your team are a senior one preaching this and that to people who have invested there time effort and in many cases heart in soul in this grade. Easy for someone like you to insist change is needed others won't agree and never will.

 

 

[Burnie_man]

34 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

.Kelty season tickets on sale for £130. On the website. 

 

If the riches in the EOS league are so large why have Easthouse and craigroyston both left for the juniors ( with others I hear kean)  and why don't these clubs have super facilities?  

 

If you don't like the junior set up leave, simple solution.

They are not charging £130 for season tickets - DOH!

Clubs ARE leaving, and will continue to leave once Kelty have lead the way.  The East of Scotland League is pish, however it's the route to the Lowland League, it's also the route to an SFA Licence and Scottish Cup participation every year, with all the benefits that entails.

Easthouses and Craigroyston moved presumably for a new challenge given they are not licenced and fairly small clubs, but the landscape will change a bit over the next few years, they might move back........what will Armadale do?  One thing you can do now you're in the South Division is sit in Easthouses new stand.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, rednblack said:

Artificial or not those barriers have been there for well over 100 years, all well you coming onto a junior forum when your team are a senior one preaching this and that to people who have invested there time effort and in many cases heart in soul in this grade. Easy for someone like insist change is needed others won't agree and never will.

He's absolutely spot on though, you just wont admit it.

How will it feel when Rob Roy move to their new build stadium with 3G pitch, floodlights, fancy new pavilion, proper toilets. It's called progress, no doubt you'll hate it 

[Burnie_man]

35 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

I have no issue with the Pyramid system, however the argument that we will lose good clubs if we don't join the party is utter nonsense.

How is it nonsense, the Champions have just left and others will follow. It's like you're in denial.

[rednblack]

He's absolutely spot on though, you just wont admit it.

How will it feel when Rob Roy move to their new build stadium with 3G pitch, floodlights, fancy new pavilion, proper toilets. It's called progress, no doubt you'll hate it  [emoji38]

I will love it. It's the future but i want Rob Roy future to be in our new stadium in junior football. It really is that simple.

 

If somehow we emigrated to something else or everything joined in i would get on with it , I just know what I'd prefer to happen and that is for the distinct grades to remain separate.

 

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, rednblack said:

I will love it. It's the future but i want Rob Roy future to be in our new stadium in junior football. It really is that simple.

If somehow we emigrated to something else or everything joined in i would get on with it , I just know what I'd prefer to happen.

Junior football is just a name. Spartans also play in a new build ground with 3G, floodlights, a fancy pavilion and proper toilets, Rob Roy will be no different to Spartans when they move in.

It's a misty eyed myth to think Junior football is different from all other non-league football in Scotland, it isn't. There is nothing intrinsically different at all (apart from a few backward rules and no fixture list).  I watched Burntisland Shipyard v Eyemouth towards the end of last season. The quality was shite but the actual experience was no different to Junior football in Fife, not that I expected it to be.

A Rob Roy game when they move will on the face of it be no different to a Spartans game in the Lowland League.

[garrellburn]

56 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

How will it feel when Rob Roy move to their new build stadium with 3G pitch, floodlights, fancy new pavilion, proper toilets. It's called progress, no doubt you'll hate it 

Presuming he lives long enough to see it!

[TFW]

Just as an aside, and I do admit to being a fan of reasonable progression via workaable pyramid structure, how would we overcome the likes of the vast majority of Junior clubs not having floodlights? It's nonsensical that those Juniors that do have them can't sue them if the opposition don't want to play under them. Why, ffs?

 

Given that the Juniors outwith the inner city central belt typically sit around old coalfields, and therefore probably the most deprived areas of the country, is there not someone, somewhere, who could point them into the direction of the Coalfields Regeneration Trust or others who could help with funding of floodlights? We really do need to move into the 21st century instead of wallowing in dewy eyed nostalgia and inertia.

[calmac25]

Just as an aside, and I do admit to being a fan of reasonable progression via workaable pyramid structure, how would we overcome the likes of the vast majority of Junior clubs not having floodlights? It's nonsensical that those Juniors that do have them can't sue them if the opposition don't want to play under them. Why, ffs?
 
Given that the Juniors outwith the inner city central belt typically sit around old coalfields, and therefore probably the most deprived areas of the country, is there not someone, somewhere, who could point them into the direction of the Coalfields Regeneration Trust or others who could help with funding of floodlights? We really do need to move into the 21st century instead of wallowing in dewy eyed nostalgia and inertia.

3 lowland league teams still don't have floodlights and lots more in the SOS and EoS but I agree it's something to aspire to

There was a mention at the end of last season that the east juniors were going to use floodlights where available to avoid fixture congestion but haven't seen it confirmed on here

[FairWeatherFan]

How about this for simplicity. Kill off the Lowland League. Western remnants go to the SoS, Eastern to the EoS.

Playoffs:

Highland League champions vs. North Region Superleague champions

SoS Champions vs. West Region Premiership champions

EoS Champions vs. East Region Superleague champions

(any of the 6 Regional champions can reject the opportunity to take part)

3x Regional playoff winners go into the pot with SPFL42 for playoff semi finals and final. Regional mergers may take place over time due to promotion & relegation likely to affect things.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

16 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

 clearly the U20 system doesn’t currently work very well, many coaches within the game

I think you stumbled upon the real problem.

Coaching is no longer a vocation. It is treated like an occupation you can learn, regardless of your instinctive knowledge of football. It has become a career choice for people leaving uni with sports science degrees. If they got offered a job at Scottish Volleyball for a pound more they'd take that.

[Burnie_man]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I think you stumbled upon the real problem.

Coaching is no longer a vocation. It is treated like an occupation you can learn, regardless of your instinctive knowledge of football. It has become a career choice for people leaving uni with sports science degrees. If they got offered a job at Scottish Volleyball for a pound more they'd take that.

Coaching of coaches is a big part of the problem. 

On the flip side there are far too many who don't have a coaching qualification to their name.  compare it to Iceland or Germany and you can see how far behind we are.