Work colleagues

[NotThePars]

4 hours ago, BFTD said:

Does anyone else's work try to make them use annual leave instead of taking sick time?

When I first started at the current job, I heard that was considered standard practice and, right enough, my boss did a lot of squirming about how "most people just use their holiday time" when I finally got the flu. Bollocks to that. One of my colleagues had to take a month off due to major surgery and came back early from the advised convalescence because their annual leave had run out. Mental stuff.

That is literally mental and I'm going to book a week's annual leave to come and forcibly unionise everyone in your workplace. Failing that I'll be taking inspiration from certain sports related news headlines and I'll be [PARODY] their [CENSORED] and [IN THE GAME]

[Todd_is_God]

7 hours ago, RH33 said:

Sick pay is paid by government so why would it make any difference. At it.

SSP is paid by the employer, not the Government.

[Jambomo]

11 hours ago, BFTD said:

I'm in the unfortunate position where my boss is a selfish cock, and the board have slashed staff to the point that most managers are "managers" in name only, as they have no subordinates anymore. As a result, there's nobody to cover for when someone's off sick or takes holiday time, and anyone who doesn't play ball with covering their work is likely to be left hanging out to dry by middle-management. The board don't support us in any way either - what they really mean is, "we want everyone to keep up with their own work whilst also doing other people's work too", but they're obviously too smart to put that on record. The company closes locations purely to get rid of "difficult" employees, which is exactly as mental as it sounds, but it's happened at least four times while I've been with them.

I've taken the approach of warning (in writing) that my work will suffer when I'm drafted elsewhere, and following it up with an "I told you so" message when that's exactly what happens. It all gets completely ignored, but at least it's something I can send to the board once my role has been "retired". Only problem is, I'm not the first leaving employee who's gone down this route, and they couldn't have cared less. Very odd place to work; it's almost like the board think they've been appointed to implement a managed decline.

Fair enough. I think you should be looking to get out mate, between that and being made to take leave when you’re sick, this employer is not only a shit employer but it sounds like a very insecure job if they can close you down and put you out of a job that easily, and the board warning you whilst also turning a blind eye to your manager continuing to do that could be the start of that process. You are in a no-win position so jump before you get pushed.

[hk blues]

14 hours ago, Donathan said:

In my experience the dividing line here is whether or not you work in a publicly facing job.

 

In public facing jobs you're being paid to literally be available between the hours of X and Y and to do any work that comes up during those times. In this case I'd expect them to insist you use holiday or make up the hours as you're being paid by the hour.

 

If you work in an office type job where you're being paid a salary to produce a particular output, then I'd expect much more leniency. Generally it's up to the employee to make sure their work gets done and deadlines are made, so I think the employer would allow you to drop out for an hour or two without formally making the time up so long as all the work gets done.

I always worked in factory environments, so a mixture of salaried and hourly-paid employees.  The salaried staff were allowed time off for medical appointments with no need to work back time but at the same time they were expected to work the odd extra 5 or 10 minutes when needed, very much give and take.  For the hourly-paid, they lost the time.  The option of using holidays wasn't available as we had factory closure for holidays.

I can't say it ever created any issues despite the obvious disparity.

[GordonD]

9 hours ago, BFTD said:

I don't think anyone's needed maternity leave in the time I've been there -

 

[Jacksgranda]

12 hours ago, BFTD said:

 I don't think anyone's needed maternity leave in the time I've been there - certainly not in my department

Need to up your game, mate.

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

SSP is paid by the employer, not the Government.

It's also reclaimed by the employer from tax and NI contribution.

[tamthebam]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

Need to up your game, mate.

BFTD works at a charity.... but they're not that charitable by the sounds of it! 

[coprolite]

8 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

It's also reclaimed by the employer from tax and NI contribution.

I thought it was too. Apart from covid, that was abolished in 2014. 

[Busta Nut]

19 hours ago, BFTD said:

Does anyone else's work try to make them use annual leave instead of taking sick time?

When I first started at the current job, I heard that was considered standard practice and, right enough, my boss did a lot of squirming about how "most people just use their holiday time" when I finally got the flu. Bollocks to that. One of my colleagues had to take a month off due to major surgery and came back early from the advised convalescence because their annual leave had run out. Mental stuff.

Is that not illegal? 

[Sergeant Wilson]

59 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I thought it was too. Apart from covid, that was abolished in 2014. 

I was only 7 years out of date, not bad for me.

[Northboy]

8 hours ago, hk blues said:

I always worked in factory environments, so a mixture of salaried and hourly-paid employees. 

I've spent a fair time in factory environments too and the salaried vs hourly paid always generates a good debate about who has the better deal.

[Aufc]

The operations director in my work regularly gets a hard on for saying that all salaries people should go onto an hourly rate. I caught him out last time and said it was a great idea and I was happy for that to happen. But my hourly rate would be based on my current salary (I would be paid about £10 an hour more than the highest paid hourly employee), I would also get paid from 7am when I come in and I’d also get to go home when weather is shite and sites are closed and I’d get paid a full day. He quickly realised it would cost the company a shedload of money and hasn’t mentioned it since

[coprolite]

My work, and also my last work, does hour for hour flexi for more junior employees. Then at a given level it's all "reasonable requests to work extra hours".

Mostly that amounts to more or less the same hours but the junior staff can sell flexi back for their hourly rate.  It means that there's normally a pay cut or measly rise  for getting promoted to manager. 

[Jacksgranda]

6 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

It's also reclaimed by the employer from tax and NI contribution.

Rangers must have had some SSP claims...

Edited May 24, 2021 by Jacksgranda
Typo

[BFTD]

19 hours ago, NotThePars said:

That is literally mental and I'm going to book a week's annual leave to come and forcibly unionise everyone in your workplace. Failing that I'll be taking inspiration from certain sports related news headlines and I'll be [PARODY] their [CENSORED] and [IN THE GAME]

There's union involvement in collective bargaining, which is a bit of a laugh in and of itself. Mentioned it before, but there seems to be too cozy a relationship between the union and certain people at the company.

I just assumed everyone was in the union until recently, when it became obvious that some of my colleagues who really needed some union backup had never bothered joining. I've found a way of bringing the subject up with eight or nine folk since then, and I'm the only one paying dues because it's so expensive (it really isn't). That's the point where I gave up trying to encourage people to question what's happening to them.

4 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

Is that not illegal? 

Turns out that they fold when you call their bluff, so it's not something they're stupid enough to try and enforce. It's all guilt and suggestion, which it seems that a lot of my colleagues just go along with.

14 hours ago, Jambomo said:

Fair enough. I think you should be looking to get out mate, between that and being made to take leave when you’re sick, this employer is not only a shit employer but it sounds like a very insecure job if they can close you down and put you out of a job that easily, and the board warning you whilst also turning a blind eye to your manager continuing to do that could be the start of that process. You are in a no-win position so jump before you get pushed.

I refused to use my annual leave to cover sick days right from the off, btw - it's never been mentioned to me again, and I haven't noticed any ill effects, which speaks volumes, I think.

Yeah, I think I'm at the start of a long crawl towards being shown the door, so I'll start looking elsewhere. It's a shame, as I really like the job, and I work with some lovely folk for a good cause...but the attitudes of the people at the top are worrying. Should be nowhere near the third sector.

[BFTD]

Apologies for coming across like that Dunfermline lad, BTW - I'm mainly bringing these things up here because I'm genuinely curious if it's as unusual as it seems to me, and I figured it might be entertaining to discuss some of this stuff...in a horrifying way. I'm not after sympathy or owt, it's my fault I'm still there.

[ICTChris]

BFTD works at a charity.... but they're not that charitable by the sounds of it! 

It’s just my experience but often organisations that are ostensibly the most worthy are also the most prone to bullying and poor behaviour. See the numerous bullying scandals in the NHS and various charities.

[Jambomo]

1 hour ago, BFTD said:

I refused to use my annual leave to cover sick days right from the off, btw - it's never been mentioned to me again, and I haven't noticed any ill effects, which speaks volumes, I think.

Glad to hear it, it’s definitely a shady practice whether it’s outright illegal or not. Honestly, I reckon you can do loads better work wise.

[hk blues]

15 hours ago, Northboy said:

I've spent a fair time in factory environments too and the salaried vs hourly paid always generates a good debate about who has the better deal.

Indeed!  Both have their pros and cons and it's difficult to look at individual elements of the respective packages in isolation.