Work colleagues

[Stellaboz]

Why should anyone take annual leave during a pandemic and not be able to get some quality time away from work later in the year, if they so desire? Employers need to do more for their employees, not the other way round. 

[Bairnardo]

Why should anyone take annual leave during a pandemic and not be able to get some quality time away from work later in the year, if they so desire? Employers need to do more for their employees, not the other way round. 

Yeah annual leave is part of your wages. Getting told to take it now is a wage cut dressed up in different clothes. There might be no way round it, and like everyone else I would probably caution against an all out rammy with your employer at this time ut it doenst mean folk should just eat their cereal. Forced holidays is shite.

[GTG_03]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Rife in oil and gas. Speaking out, especially if you are a contractor will simply result in your services no longer being required.

The disgraceful practice of NRB in all but name.

What the oil companies say they expect of you, and what they actually expect of you are at polar opposite ends of the scale and it genuinely is luck that a similar incident to Piper hasnt happened again.

Spot on, they all have 'golden rules' and will hammer home things like holding handrails while walking up and down stairs but if you have a genuine safety concern that will cost money they're just not interested. 

[Bairnardo]

Spot on, they all have 'golden rules' and will hammer home things like holding handrails while walking up and down stairs but if you have a genuine safety concern that will cost money they're just not interested. 

Not least when it comes to firing folk onto shite rotas and cutting the numbers. All industries have their c***s, but I wanted out of that one almost as soon as I got into it. Dont get wrong, I took a good skin out it like everyone else but that's part of the problem. Far too easy for the lads in the firing line to be convinced by those upstairs that they owe them something. Usually manifesting itself in carrying out black ops on wholly verbal instruction which would be rigorously denied at your Court hearing when you eventually f**k it up.

[CountyFan]

8 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Why should anyone take annual leave during a pandemic and not be able to get some quality time away from work later in the year, if they so desire? Employers need to do more for their employees, not the other way round. 

Because they're clearly not going to be in a position to allow everyone off when they want to be. Plenty workplaces struggle with that in a normal year. I'm not saying not to save some leave up for later when folk can do something nice with it, which is obviously what it is for. I'm just saying it's totally reasonable that an employer would want you to take a proportion of AL now to ease things later.  

[Honest_Man#1]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

6 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Why should anyone take annual leave during a pandemic and not be able to get some quality time away from work later in the year, if they so desire? Employers need to do more for their employees, not the other way round. 

Yeah annual leave is part of your wages. Getting told to take it now is a wage cut dressed up in different clothes. There might be no way round it, and like everyone else I would probably caution against an all out rammy with your employer at this time ut it doenst mean folk should just eat their cereal. Forced holidays is shite.

But say as an example you provide a critical service to a site and can’t be stopped. You’ve got a small team of 5 people, all of whom have not taken summer holidays and have 25+ days still to take. For the employer, if you don’t do anything and nobody has taken holidays by November because they don’t want to take them just to sit at home and then suddenly want to take all their leave in the final 2 months of the year, it’s just not possible.
 

What is the solution?

[CountyFan]

1 minute ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

But say as an example you provide a critical service to a site and can’t be stopped. You’ve got a small team of 5 people, all of whom have not taken summer holidays and have 25+ days still to take. For the employer, if you don’t do anything and nobody has taken holidays by November because they don’t want to take them just to sit at home and then suddenly want to take all their leave in the final 2 months of the year, it’s just not possible.
 

What is the solution?

Thank you. It's not some nefarious plan by evil employers to shaft you, it's a totally reasonable response to a service pressure. 

[Stellaboz]

[Bairnardo]

9 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

But say as an example you provide a critical service to a site and can’t be stopped. You’ve got a small team of 5 people, all of whom have not taken summer holidays and have 25+ days still to take. For the employer, if you don’t do anything and nobody has taken holidays by November because they don’t want to take them just to sit at home and then suddenly want to take all their leave in the final 2 months of the year, it’s just not possible.
 

What is the solution?

Carryover to next year? Manage the holidays carefully in the remainder of the year? Buy them back off your employees? Not saying it's not difficult, and in a lot of cases it might be the only option, but that doesnt mean it's not shite for those involved and they have energy right to complain about it. 

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Carryover to next year? Manage the holidays carefully in the remainder of the year? Buy them back off your employees? Not saying it's not difficult, and in a lot of cases it might be the only option, but that doesnt mean it's not shite for those involved and they have energy right to complain about it. 

Carry over and buy back are possible on leave in excess of statutory leave, but there is a minimum time that people need to have off. 

 

[The Moonster]

14 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

Baffled that folk cant understand why their employer might want them to take some AL at the moment. There are going to be hundreds of requests for everyone to be off all at the same time when this blows over. Totally selfish and inconsiderate for folk to demand they get to take their leave when they want and at no other time. Normally, obviously, that would be totally reasonable - but theres a fucking pandemic on if you haven't noticed. Just how exactly should an employer who is thinking about everyone and not just you personally deal with that? 

Reading this thread sometimes it wouldn't fucking matter what your employer said or did, some of you would still be raging at them. As I say, baffling. 

In my own circumstances, I'd probably have accepted it if my employer put it across to me like that. They didn't. They said they wanted us to use holidays to ensure we got full pay for the two weeks we were closing down, they could have furloughed everyone and paid the 20% themselves. They painted it as something else whilst they knew it would use up a host of holidays that folk couldn't use later. Aye, there is a fucking pandemic on, and we're still coming to work ensuring the company stays alive. I don't think it's asking much for employers to give us some slack when this is over. Bairnardo points out a few options above that are easily more palatable than using your holidays to sit in lockdown.

We've also been informed that because there are 5 employees on furlough (sales guys who can visit customers) then the rest of us can't be paid our bonus. That's despite a best ever year of sales for the company and a healthy order book for the rest of the year. So no bonus, no holidays, and I've just to keep licking boots and accept it rather than ask for a compromise on holidays? With respect, f**k you.

[Bairnardo]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

Carry over and buy back are possible on leave in excess of statutory leave, but there is a minimum time that people need to have off. 

 

Are you suggesting that peoples holiday entitlement has to be taken in full each year to ensure they havent breached working time regs?

For the vast majority of people who work 8 hour days, 5 days a week, all legally mandated time off work is more than covered. 

[CountyFan]

10 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

In my own circumstances, I'd probably have accepted it if my employer put it across to me like that. They didn't. They said they wanted us to use holidays to ensure we got full pay for the two weeks we were closing down, they could have furloughed everyone and paid the 20% themselves. They painted it as something else whilst they knew it would use up a host of holidays that folk couldn't use later. Aye, there is a fucking pandemic on, and we're still coming to work ensuring the company stays alive. I don't think it's asking much for employers to give us some slack when this is over. Bairnardo points out a few options above that are easily more palatable than using your holidays to sit in lockdown.

We've also been informed that because there are 5 employees on furlough (sales guys who can visit customers) then the rest of us can't be paid our bonus. That's despite a best ever year of sales for the company and a healthy order book for the rest of the year. So no bonus, no holidays, and I've just to keep licking boots and accept it rather than ask for a compromise on holidays? With respect, f**k you.

I understand where you're coming from. Your employers sound like chancers. I was just trying to make the point that on AL in particular there might be more requirement this year to be strict. Obviously the wider context you have provided affects your willingness to be flexible with your employer which is totally reasonable. 

[Empty It]

To try make people take annual leave during these times is criminal, when everything is slightly more normal and everyone is back to work surely they can work it between each department so as to minimalise the amount of people off at the same time.

[coprolite]

17 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Are you suggesting that peoples holiday entitlement has to be taken in full each year to ensure they havent breached working time regs?

For the vast majority of people who work 8 hour days, 5 days a week, all legally mandated time off work is more than covered. 

Strictly, yes.

28 days you get, less 8-10 bank holidays and there's still 4 working weeks to take. 

Say your employer's policy is for a five day carry forward limit. If someone has 20 days left going into the last month then i think they could reasonably claim that they need to take 15 or the employer is in breach. 

It's not hard to imagine in this situation  an employee demanding  leave and being refused and either takes it and is sacked or quits and claims constructive dismissal and the whole thing ends up at tribunal. Improbable sure, but a tail risk. 

Better to manage the risk up front. 

A few of the examples quoted sound particularly ham fisted. 

[CountyFan]

2 minutes ago, Empty It said:

To try make people take annual leave during these times is criminal, when everything is slightly more normal and everyone is back to work surely they can work it between each department so as to minimalise the amount of people off at the same time.

I'm sorry but this is absolute nonsense. They obviously will be doing that to the best of their ability, but it will not be feasible for the vast majority of workplaces to have loads of people all wanting off at the same time. I really don't understand why this is hard to grasp. 

[Bairnardo]

Strictly, yes.
28 days you get, less 8-10 bank holidays and there's still 4 working weeks to take. 
Say your employer's policy is for a five day carry forward limit. If someone has 20 days left going into the last month then i think they could reasonably claim that they need to take 15 or the employer is in breach. 
It's not hard to imagine in this situation  an employee demanding  leave and being refused and either takes it and is sacked or quits and claims constructive dismissal and the whole thing ends up at tribunal. Improbable sure, but a tail risk. 
Better to manage the risk up front. 
A few of the examples quoted sound particularly ham fisted. 

I think what you describe helps illustrate the need for balance, but any time I have worked monday to friday, there has been an arbitrary carryover limit imposed and AL is use it or lose it. That suggests to me that my working time was well below any legal limit with our without taking AL.

If you have 20 days left in December and can only carry 5 forward that's just bad planning on your part. If annual leave is denied through the year for operational reasons then you need to thrash out a deal re payment or increased carryover and this also happened when I worked Mon Fri

[Bairnardo]

I'm sorry but this is absolute nonsense. They obviously will be doing that to the best of their ability, but it will not be feasible for the vast majority of workplaces to have loads of people all wanting off at the same time. I really don't understand why this is hard to grasp. 

It's not feasible. But managing it between teams is feasible. Every bit as feasible as torpedeoing everybody's leave for the rest of the year in June

[Empty It]

I'm sorry but this is absolute nonsense. They obviously will be doing that to the best of their ability, but it will not be feasible for the vast majority of workplaces to have loads of people all wanting off at the same time. I really don't understand why this is hard to grasp. 

Nonsense is stating that people should bend over and get shafted by being forced to take their annual leave during a period of government lockdown, I presume you've taken all your leave during this period to help your employer?

[CountyFan]

4 minutes ago, Empty It said:

9 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

I'm sorry but this is absolute nonsense. They obviously will be doing that to the best of their ability, but it will not be feasible for the vast majority of workplaces to have loads of people all wanting off at the same time. I really don't understand why this is hard to grasp. 

Nonsense is stating that people should bend over and get shafted by being forced to take their annual leave during a period of government lockdown, I presume you've taken all your leave during this period to help your employer?

I've taken a week to help and I'll be being considerate about any future requests. Clearly I have a better relationship with my employer than you all do.