Work colleagues

[Bairnardo]

"Agenda for Change"

What did you/others do to change that situation?

Not being a dick about it here but this is generally what bugs me. You are the union. If you dont like it, change it.

[Homer Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

What did you/others do to change that situation?

Not being a dick about it here but this is generally what bugs me. You are the union. If you dont like it, change it.

What do you suggest we should have done?

[Bairnardo]

Just now, Mr X said:

What do you suggest we should have done?

Firstly, come to a conclusion about whether your reps are getting you the best deal or if you felt there was more on the table, then if you believed they were not gettig the best deal or following the democratic will of the members, voted against any deal you were unsatisfied with and subsequently removed your shop steward and stood in his/her place. 

[Homer Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Firstly, come to a conclusion about whether your reps are getting you the best deal or if you felt there was more on the table, then if you believed they were not gettig the best deal or following the democratic will of the members, voted against any deal you were unsatisfied with and subsequently removed your shop steward and stood in his/her place. 

There was no vote on individual deals.

I have/had no interest in standing as a shop steward and representing the rest of the workforce. As I said, I would have much rather had the opportunity to negotiate for myself based on my performance. Its not like there was anyone else doing my job

[Salvo Montalbano]

I'm in a union at work and kinda have to be since if there were any issues in the school then being in a union is a must.

Have to say though that sadly my family experience of unions is not great. My Dad was a paid up member of the Transport and General Workers for 30 odd years, but when he was essentially sacked because of ill health the Union rep said they wouldn't take his case as it had "no chance of succeeding". He had to get a lawyer at his own expense to take the employer to the tribunal - which he won inside about 20 minutes where the foreperson or whoever is the main person in one of these halted proceedings and said it was one of the most open and shut cases he'd ever seen.

My Mum had a similar story to the one above where in the NHS she got shafted with the Agenda for Change thing and the Union (Unison this time) did hee haw while taking on a case from someone at a different hospital in the same situation (who was of course pally with the Union Rep). Sadly, those two experiences have soured my relationship with unions...

[Derry Alli]

21 minutes ago, Mr X said:

The last time I worked somewhere with a union, the pay deals they negotiated were fucking awful.

I would have quite happily turned down what they got and negotiated my own, but it wasnt an option.

This. 

In my place, the union do absolutely f**k all. I've wrote on here about how little they do to the point there was about to be pay offs and they were 'too busy' to come in. The pay for some is about to become an issue again when NMW rises and I expect they'll get absolutely no help yet again. 

The only reason I stay in it is due to the injury cover and free claims when we're hurt. 

[Bairnardo]

Just now, Mr X said:

There was no vote on individual deals.

I have/had no interest in standing as a shop steward and representing the rest of the workforce. As I said, I would have much rather had the opportunity to negotiate for myself based on my performance. Its not like there was anyone else doing my job

Your other option then is to engage the rest of the workforce to see what the appetite for binning the collective agreement would be. 

Like I say, I am not saying this to be obtuse or anything, and I am very aware that what I typed is easier said than done. However, it is a lack of understanding of this stuff both on the part of members and of stewards that leads to a lot of frustrations with unions. It's all too easy to blame the catch all bogeyman type figure of "The Union" but any steward worth his salt would make all of that stuff clear. 

I would never tell anyone they have no right to moan, because of course they do. No democracy can please everyone but it can please most. I was always very keen that anyone not happy with what I was doing told me so as my job went no further than collating and representing their views, however ultimately some impasses can only be solved by acknowledgement of the steward that they are no longer the best person for the job, since the workforce arent getting what they want. 

[Homer Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Your other option then is to engage the rest of the workforce to see what the appetite for binning the collective agreement would be. 

Like I say, I am not saying this to be obtuse or anything, and I am very aware that what I typed is easier said than done. However, it is a lack of understanding of this stuff both on the part of members and of stewards that leads to a lot of frustrations with unions. It's all too easy to blame the catch all bogeyman type figure of "The Union" but any steward worth his salt would make all of that stuff clear. 

I would never tell anyone they have no right to moan, because of course they do. No democracy can please everyone but it can please most. I was always very keen that anyone not happy with what I was doing told me so as my job went no further than collating and representing their views, however ultimately some impasses can only be solved by acknowledgement of the steward that they are no longer the best person for the job, since the workforce arent getting what they want. 

I dont want to sound selfish but I had no interest in the rest of the workforce. They may well have been happy with the deals but personally I wasnt. Despite what you say, realistically, there was nothing I could do about it. I wasnt that bothered, but I certainly wasnt going to join a union that I didnt think represented me or negotiated a pay deal I was happy with.

I wasnt really talking as generally as this, just responding to GordonD who was unhappy non-members took union negotiated pay rises.

[Bairnardo]

I have a mix of good and bad experiences with unions but relative wealth of the top 1% negatively correlates with % of the workforce in a union so I'm never not going to be in one.

These population level things are maybe a bit harder for folk to translate into things directly relevant to their own lives but that's just the story of the modern world. Poll after poll will say we all want egalitarian things and then we (the western world I mean) vote for politicians who won't give them to us. The hardest thing seems to be to think a step or so ahead. If conditions are good and society is fairer, you don't really need that bigger pay rise you might get if you work somewhere without a union.

Collective bargaining has some serious drawbacks and theres little point pretending otherwise, but in my experience, the alternative is far more open to abuse and in my experience, that abuse has manifested itself in the most predictable of ways. Until people in charge can be trusted to treat everyone fairly, collectivisation is by FAR the lesser of two evils. Quite simply, the need for it will never go away.

Of the two ways we can acheive fairness in the workplace, trade unions are the only one that isnt even more far fetched than a fairy story.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

I have a mix of good and bad experiences with unions but relative wealth of the top 1% negatively correlates with % of the workforce in a union so I'm never not going to be in one.

These population level things are maybe a bit harder for folk to translate into things directly relevant to their own lives but that's just the story of the modern world. Poll after poll will say we all want egalitarian things and then we (the western world I mean) vote for politicians who won't give them to us. The hardest thing seems to be to think a step or so ahead. If conditions are good and society is fairer, you don't really need that bigger pay rise you might get if you work somewhere without a union.

How could you sit through a union meeting i

 

1 hour ago, MixuFixit said:

I just sat through a union meeting where someone was threatening to leave because the sub is too high and that we should use our strike fund to subsidise the sub.

A: it's set nationally and B: it's like 0.5% of your salary. Jesus Christ people sometimes.

f if you're not in a union?

[Bairnardo]

f if you're not in a union?

Put yer Greg's on auld yin

[Senor Bairn]

Dont know if this is the correct thread but f**k it, I've been in a full time job since I graduated from University last May, at first it was great, proper enjoyed comingto wrok every day even though I was vastly inexpierenced (I still am) and there was (still is) so much to learn. All was well until about 3 weeks before Christmas, when the company I worked for went bust, leaving me and my colleagues in the shit just before christmas. Luckily for us we were TUPED over to a french company who are continuing with the projects of the old company. Under TUPE we were all told by the administrators that we would be paid fully and nobody would lose out. This turned out to not be the case, the new company said they wouldnt pay us the two weeks we were "out of work", and expected us to come back in the week before christmas and resume works again (which we did).

Being my first job, the whole expierence fucked with my head quite a bit and ruined the couple weeks off at christmas to a certain extent, luckily I'm in a good position as I still live with my parents and dont have too much to pay for other than the usual stuff (digs, phone, motor). I can't think how others that had kids and a mortgage felt. However, after negotations, the  new company said they would pay us 1 week of the missing wages in our January pay, and the other in March as a good will gesture under the terms that we were still employed. January comes around, wages totally incorrect, panic ensues again.

The whole thing has been a total shit show from start to finish, and luckily I have found a new job just last week, I now have a months notice to serve and although its nice to not have to worry about work, I feel like Im robbing a living by not being arsed or getting stuff done. Am I an arsehole? Or am I right to take my foot off the pedal.

[Jacksgranda]

F****** double negatives. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Jacksgranda

[KnightswoodBear]

3 minutes ago, Senor Bairn said:

Am I an arsehole? Or am I right to take my foot off the pedal.

No. Yes

f**k them.

[Derry Alli]

1 minute ago, Senor Bairn said:

 I have found a new job just last week, I now have a months notice to serve

Am I an arsehole? 

Well done on the new job, hopefully it all works out for you. If you need to work the month - as in you can't start for a month - then fair enough. Otherwise f**k them off and go start at your new work. They weren't shy in shafting you. You shouldn't feel guilty. 

Of course you are, absolutely nothing to do with this though. You. Just. Are. 

[Bairnardo]

Dont know if this is the correct thread but f**k it, I've been in a full time job since I graduated from University last May, at first it was great, proper enjoyed comingto wrok every day even though I was vastly inexpierenced (I still am) and there was (still is) so much to learn. All was well until about 3 weeks before Christmas, when the company I worked for went bust, leaving me and my colleagues in the shit just before christmas. Luckily for us we were TUPED over to a french company who are continuing with the projects of the old company. Under TUPE we were all told by the administrators that we would be paid fully and nobody would lose out. This turned out to not be the case, the new company said they wouldnt pay us the two weeks we were "out of work", and expected us to come back in the week before christmas and resume works again (which we did).

Being my first job, the whole expierence fucked with my head quite a bit and ruined the couple weeks off at christmas to a certain extent, luckily I'm in a good position as I still live with my parents and dont have too much to pay for other than the usual stuff (digs, phone, motor). I can't think how others that had kids and a mortgage felt. However, after negotations, the  new company said they would pay us 1 week of the missing wages in our January pay, and the other in March as a good will gesture under the terms that we were still employed. January comes around, wages totally incorrect, panic ensues again.

The whole thing has been a total shit show from start to finish, and luckily I have found a new job just last week, I now have a months notice to serve and although its nice to not have to worry about work, I feel like Im robbing a living by not being arsed or getting stuff done. Am I an arsehole? Or am I right to take my foot off the pedal.

Nope. Aside from ensuring you aren't actively shafting any of your mates, notice period should be used as an opportunity to delete that job from your brain, and make space for the new one. The brain only has limited space, so if you keep grafting till the last bell then there is a risk that by week two of your new job you wont be able to remember how to tie laces, or the buttons for FIFA

[Senor Bairn]

3 minutes ago, Dele said:

Well done on the new job, hopefully it all works out for you. If you need to work the month - as in you can't start for a month - then fair enough. Otherwise f**k them off and go start at your new work. They weren't shy in shafting you. You shouldn't feel guilty. 

Of course you are, absolutely nothing to do with this though. You. Just. Are. 

New job starts at the end of this month, if I could have started sooner I would have, just the way its worked out.

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

7 minutes ago, Senor Bairn said:

Dont know if this is the correct thread but f**k it, I've been in a full time job since I graduated from University last May, at first it was great, proper enjoyed comingto wrok every day even though I was vastly inexpierenced (I still am) and there was (still is) so much to learn. All was well until about 3 weeks before Christmas, when the company I worked for went bust, leaving me and my colleagues in the shit just before christmas. Luckily for us we were TUPED over to a french company who are continuing with the projects of the old company. Under TUPE we were all told by the administrators that we would be paid fully and nobody would lose out. This turned out to not be the case, the new company said they wouldnt pay us the two weeks we were "out of work", and expected us to come back in the week before christmas and resume works again (which we did).

Being my first job, the whole expierence fucked with my head quite a bit and ruined the couple weeks off at christmas to a certain extent, luckily I'm in a good position as I still live with my parents and dont have too much to pay for other than the usual stuff (digs, phone, motor). I can't think how others that had kids and a mortgage felt. However, after negotations, the  new company said they would pay us 1 week of the missing wages in our January pay, and the other in March as a good will gesture under the terms that we were still employed. January comes around, wages totally incorrect, panic ensues again.

The whole thing has been a total shit show from start to finish, and luckily I have found a new job just last week, I now have a months notice to serve and although its nice to not have to worry about work, I feel like Im robbing a living by not being arsed or getting stuff done. Am I an arsehole? Or am I right to take my foot off the pedal.

Nope. Aside from ensuring you aren't actively shafting any of your mates, notice period should be used as an opportunity to delete that job from your brain, and make space for the new one. The brain only has limited space, so if you keep grafting till the last bell then there is a risk that by week two of your new job you wont be able to remember how to tie laces, or the buttons for FIFA

Yeah I've made the effort to help work colleagues that ask for help/ require me etc, anything I can get away with not doing though that isnt affecting anyone else is getting completely pied off though. P&B knows how to make me feel better about doing f**k all other than scrolling the internet all day xx

[KnightswoodBear]

2 minutes ago, Senor Bairn said:

P&B knows how to make me feel better about doing f**k all other than scrolling the internet all day xx

Calling @Melanius Mullarkey

[Fullerene]

12 minutes ago, Senor Bairn said:

The whole thing has been a total shit show from start to finish, and luckily I have found a new job just last week, I now have a months notice to serve and although its nice to not have to worry about work, I feel like Im robbing a living by not being arsed or getting stuff done. Am I an arsehole? Or am I right to take my foot off the pedal.

In theory the notice period is intended to help the company reassign your work to other people and maybe even hire a replacement. 

Sounds like they are not really doing that and simply asking you to do the notice period because that is the way it is.

If they inspired loyalty you would have no difficulty finding things to do.  Obviously they don't.  Not your problem.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

8 minutes ago, KnightswoodBear said:

Calling @Melanius Mullarkey