Work colleagues

[Todd_is_God]

47 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I remember reading an article about the productivity problem in the UK - British productivity is low and has been since the 2008 recession.  One reason that some have given for this is poor education and training among the workforce.  People usually think that this covers technical or vocational training, updating role specific skills and it does in part but one thing I've found is that it's extremely rare for people who are managers to be trained in management.  I've been in employment for two decades and I honestly don't think that any of my managers were trained in how to effectively manage resources for productivity and certainly they weren't trained in 'soft skills', ie how to manage people, how to treat your staff.  I've had managers who were brilliant at it and others who were terrible - it was just luck.  Most people get promoted into management jobs and in a lot of organisations to get to a certain pay grade or level you have to manage staff.  Not everyone has the aptitude for that and even then people who might have it aren't trained. 

This in turn causes a lot of workplace bullying and poor behaviour because managers don't know how to treat people, how ot influence or motivate them, so they just use their authority like a blunt instrument.  I had a manager once who used to say things like "If you don't get this sorted you can meet me in the fucking car park at the end of your shift", other senior managers in that company (a large Edinburgh based three letter bank) would try and intimidate you, stare you out into doing what they wanted.  I knew I was going to leave at this point so I would just stare back and stick to my guns and they had no idea what to do.  If you tell someone to f**k off and they say 'no' what do you do?  Those guys were complete arseholes but they are the extreme end of the curve.

I can't find the figures but I believe that the rate of training for managers in France, for example, is much higher and just about every manager in large organisations has been trained there.  It's seen as a waste of time here, a doss.

This. Too many times i've seen someone reasonably good at their current role (or at least making it look that way) get promoted to a higher role without ever demonstrating they have any of the qualities to perform it.

When it goes wrong, they get a whole world of grief from someone else for not hitting the ground running, despite that same person spending exactly zero time helping to developing them.

When it goes well, they take all the praise going for their team's performance.

An utter sham

 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

its came up a few times on this thread i think - that phenomenon of people who are otherwise good and competent ending up promoted up until the point they're out of their depth and everything starts to run less smoothly. Other than that, sheer favouritism/nepotism to get people into roles they should be nowhere near is veeeery much alive and well.

[Netan Sansara]

It’s a well studied phenomenon, called the Peter principle. I work in tech and the amount of engineering types that are promoted to management with non existent people skills is frightening. It happens often because it’s “the way” to progress to more money etc., although at least a lot of technology companies are realising that very good developers often don’t make even competent managers. 

[Bairnardo]

In this country, people seem to think being good at current job = suited for the next role up.

Unfortunately, its also exacerbated by people who see nothing but the next rung up, and give zero thought to whether that job itself is right for them, or they for it.

[Honest_Man#1]

26 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

In this country, people seem to think being good at current job = suited for the next role up.

Unfortunately, its also exacerbated by people who see nothing but the next rung up, and give zero thought to whether that job itself is right for them, or they for it.

I also think there is a strange obsession with ‘ambition’ in this country. If someone is happy just doing their current job because they like it, and aren’t desperate to climb the ladder to get as much money and power as possible, they are looked upon as one of life’s losers who lack any ‘ambition’ by people above them.

They’re often ostracised/made fun of for not wanting to move up into management roles despite them knowing it wouldn’t suit their skillset, and would undoubtedly make them miserable as they wouldn’t enjoy the role.

[Robin.Hood]

3 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

I also think there is a strange obsession with ‘ambition’ in this country. If someone is happy just doing their current job because they like it, and aren’t desperate to climb the ladder to get as much money and power as possible, they are looked upon as one of life’s losers who lack any ‘ambition’ by people above them.

They’re often ostracised/made fun of for not wanting to move up into management roles despite them knowing it wouldn’t suit their skillset, and would undoubtedly make them miserable as they wouldn’t enjoy the role.

I had it on here. People know where I work and I've had them go on about being a  " shelf packer " as if it was to be offensive. I'd love to say I give a f**k but I'd be telling porkies 

[Northboy]

5 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I can't find the figures but I believe that the rate of training for managers in France, for example, is much higher and just about every manager in large organisations has been trained there.  It's seen as a waste of time here, a doss.

I worked close to 10 years for French run company. It never really occurred to me at the time but thinking about your comment they probably did do a lot of management training. From experience though training is not necessarily the same as competence, there were some a@seholes in management positions. 

[The Moonster]

8 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

I also think there is a strange obsession with ‘ambition’ in this country. If someone is happy just doing their current job because they like it, and aren’t desperate to climb the ladder to get as much money and power as possible, they are looked upon as one of life’s losers who lack any ‘ambition’ by people above them.

They’re often ostracised/made fun of for not wanting to move up into management roles despite them knowing it wouldn’t suit their skillset, and would undoubtedly make them miserable as they wouldn’t enjoy the role.

I'm probably in a position where I could be department manager within a couple of years and I don't really see many people in the company who would challenge me for the post, but recently I have been looking at options of starting my own business instead (a full career change, not even in the same industry). It was a cleaning business I was thinking about starting but when I told some of my mates I've been ridiculed about it, one asking me if I was having a mid-life crisis, another saying "whit do ye want to be daft cleaner fur". It made me feel quite down for a while and it made me realise that I was caring about the perception of my career more than the enjoyment I get out of it. I've very quickly developed a "f**k you" attitude to these sorts of choices now. Don't make them for anyone else, make them for yourself and if folk don't think it's ambitious enough, f**k them. We should have ambition for happiness, not the perception amongst our peers that we've done well in life. 

[Bairnardo]

Funnily enoigh I was talking about this the other night... Everyone wants to know what folk do for work. Was watching pointless and remarked to the wife, these c***s always go whats your name, what do you do for a living?

 

Who gives a f**k!? Tell me something interesting, not that you get money by fixing peoples IT problems ffs

[Theroadlesstravelled]

“Everyone you meet always asks if you have a career, are married, or own a house as if life was some kind of grocery list. But no one ever asks you if you are happy.”

Heath Ledger

[Guest bernardblack]

31 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

I also think there is a strange obsession with ‘ambition’ in this country. If someone is happy just doing their current job because they like it, and aren’t desperate to climb the ladder to get as much money and power as possible, they are looked upon as one of life’s losers who lack any ‘ambition’ by people above them.

They’re often ostracised/made fun of for not wanting to move up into management roles despite them knowing it wouldn’t suit their skillset, and would undoubtedly make them miserable as they wouldn’t enjoy the role.

This is spot on. 
Right now I’m in a job I don’t mind (never going to pretend I love it) where the pay is decent and I can switch off in the evenings/weekends. 
So many people chase money/titles etc just to work non stop. 

[Northboy]

4 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

This. Too many times i've seen someone reasonably good at their current role (or at least making it look that way) get promoted to a higher role without ever demonstrating they have any of the qualities to perform it.

One of the best managers I ever worked was one who bucked that trend. He wasn't thought of as particularly competent so when he was promoted from a technical to a management role it was a surprise and for a while caused a bit of ill feeling. Turned out to be a great manager and ran his department with the right mix of empathy, humour and authority. He kind of knew his weaknesses and often said that if he could do the job himself he wouldn't need you so you should just get on with it.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I'm probably in a position where I could be department manager within a couple of years and I don't really see many people in the company who would challenge me for the post, but recently I have been looking at options of starting my own business instead (a full career change, not even in the same industry). It was a cleaning business I was thinking about starting but when I told some of my mates I've been ridiculed about it, one asking me if I was having a mid-life crisis, another saying "whit do ye want to be daft cleaner fur". It made me feel quite down for a while and it made me realise that I was caring about the perception of my career more than the enjoyment I get out of it. I've very quickly developed a "f**k you" attitude to these sorts of choices now. Don't make them for anyone else, make them for yourself and if folk don't think it's ambitious enough, f**k them. We should have ambition for happiness, not the perception amongst our peers that we've done well in life. 

Just go for it. Mrs WRK set up a cleaning business with her mate four years ago - she now pulls in a third more than she did working full-time including weekends, and never works more than four days a week. They budget themselves for four weeks holiday a year, as well. There will always be people who want a clean house but are either to lazy or time-poor to do the job themselves. Nice and resilient as well - they only did a few supermarket hours in lockdown one so they could past their furloughed staff full pay - because not all bosses are cűnts. They're now looking at expanding further, and might even be employing me to do the books when I partially retire next year.

[Rugster]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

I'm probably in a position where I could be department manager within a couple of years and I don't really see many people in the company who would challenge me for the post, but recently I have been looking at options of starting my own business instead (a full career change, not even in the same industry). It was a cleaning business I was thinking about starting but when I told some of my mates I've been ridiculed about it, one asking me if I was having a mid-life crisis, another saying "whit do ye want to be daft cleaner fur". It made me feel quite down for a while and it made me realise that I was caring about the perception of my career more than the enjoyment I get out of it. I've very quickly developed a "f**k you" attitude to these sorts of choices now. Don't make them for anyone else, make them for yourself and if folk don't think it's ambitious enough, f**k them. We should have ambition for happiness, not the perception amongst our peers that we've done well in life. 

Oven cleaning?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 minute ago, Rugster said:

Oven cleaning?

Paid in Union Jacks.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

I also think there is a strange obsession with ‘ambition’ in this country. If someone is happy just doing their current job because they like it, and aren’t desperate to climb the ladder to get as much money and power as possible, they are looked upon as one of life’s losers who lack any ‘ambition’ by people above them.

They’re often ostracised/made fun of for not wanting to move up into management roles despite them knowing it wouldn’t suit their skillset, and would undoubtedly make them miserable as they wouldn’t enjoy the role.

Personal development and lifelong learning are the biggest load of shite going. I don't want to spend my entire life learning. I'm perfectly happy getting good enough to do my job and stopping there.

[RH33]

I work three hours a day covering lunches in a nursery. It's a great wee job, term time and wraps around kids being in school.

I've an honour a degree in childhood studies but I've no interest at this point in time having a career, three kids on my own and my mental well being more important. 

edit: I've never been career minded. I've worked lots jobs just to get by. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by RH33

[The Moonster]

20 minutes ago, Rugster said:

Oven cleaning?

Funnily enough, it was that oven cleaning discussion on here that made me think about it. I've signed up to that online course too, just not set aside time to do it yet. 

[Shandon Par]

17 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Personal development and lifelong learning are the biggest load of shite going. I don't want to spend my entire life learning. I'm perfectly happy getting good enough to do my job and stopping there.

Started using LinkedIn recently. Enjoy reading what all these ambitious folk have to say. Having run a busy business for about 15 years I’m so glad to see the back of it. Work in a humble job now and can enjoy mountain biking or walking the dog whenever I want. Life is so short and precious we’re as well spending as much time enjoying ourselves as we can. 

[microdave]

Funnily enoigh I was talking about this the other night... Everyone wants to know what folk do for work. Was watching pointless and remarked to the wife, these c***s always go whats your name, what do you do for a living?
 
Who gives a f**k!? Tell me something interesting, not that you get money by fixing peoples IT problems ffs

It's almost like your job defines who you are which is bullshit imo. My family and friends don't know what I do for a living because I do an almost pointless office job that doesn't deserve to be spoken about outside work time.