Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: See this is the different perspectives. It isn’t trivial to those of us who consume football in this country and don’t follow one of two teams. Gannonball is alright, but he genuinely doesn't get it. An awful lot of OF fans are the same. I often get asked on here why it matters to me, because I support a side that wouldn't be likely to challenge anyway, even in a much more egalitarian landscape. The idea that we don't all necessarily view such questions entirely through the prism of what would benefit our own clubs directly, genuinely escapes a lot of them, because it's the only way they can see football at all. They don't understand that we felt like we had a greater stake in it all when it hung together better, when the relative wealth of our biggest clubs wasn't greater than that of most the other sides in the country all added together. I'm a Scottish football fan and I'd much rather that the country I lived in had a league title whose destination I cared about each season and was interested in. I don't think that should baffle anyone to be honest, but it seems to absolutely stump a great many. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: See this is the different perspectives. It isn’t trivial to those of us who consume football in this country and don’t follow one of two teams. 51 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Gannonball is alright, but he genuinely doesn't get it. An awful lot of OF fans are the same. I often get asked on here why it matters to me, because I support a side that wouldn't be likely to challenge anyway, even in a much more egalitarian landscape. The idea that we don't all necessarily view such questions entirely through the prism of what would benefit our own clubs directly, genuinely escapes a lot of them, because it's the only way they can see football at all. They don't understand that we felt like we had a greater stake in it all when it hung together better, when the relative wealth of our biggest clubs wasn't greater than that of most the other sides in the country all added together. I'm a Scottish football fan and I'd much rather that the country I lived in had a league title whose destination I cared about each season and was interested in. I don't think that should baffle anyone to be honest, but it seems to absolutely stump a great many. It was pretty trivial tbh as it was debating whether higher calibre players benefit the league. I think most are on here because they have a general interest in Scottish football otherwise we would be on dedicated club forums. I get MT's side as of course it will benefit the clubs who have the players more but to suggest there is no benefit at all is an opinion rather than fact as it’s how you see the benefit in terms of financial or competiveness. Even an established league like Serie A experienced an increase in sponsorship when Ronaldo was announced for Juve. Edited July 28, 2022 by gannonball 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 58 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Gannonball is alright, but he genuinely doesn't get it. An awful lot of OF fans are the same. I often get asked on here why it matters to me, because I support a side that wouldn't be likely to challenge anyway, even in a much more egalitarian landscape. The idea that we don't all necessarily view such questions entirely through the prism of what would benefit our own clubs directly, genuinely escapes a lot of them, because it's the only way they can see football at all. They don't understand that we felt like we had a greater stake in it all when it hung together better, when the relative wealth of our biggest clubs wasn't greater than that of most the other sides in the country all added together. I'm a Scottish football fan and I'd much rather that the country I lived in had a league title whose destination I cared about each season and was interested in. I don't think that should baffle anyone to be honest, but it seems to absolutely stump a great many. Aye he’s fine, that’s why I said it was different perspectives, nothing abusive. I think someone on here had a good point once when they said OF fans ‘just drink in a different pub’. 9 minutes ago, gannonball said: It was pretty trivial tbh as it was debating whether higher calibre players benefit the league. I think most are on here because they have a general interest in Scottish football otherwise we would be on dedicated club forums. I get MT's side as of course it will benefit the clubs who have the players more but to suggest there is no benefit at all is an opinion rather than fact as it’s how you see the benefit in terms of financial or competiveness. Even an established league like Serie A experienced an increase in sponsorship when Ronaldo was announced for Juve. Well yes financial benefit is factual but opinion is who’s interests does it serve and is that worthwhile or what we want for our domestic game. The people in charge would absolutely agree that if Celtic signed cristiano ronaldo tomorrow, while the rest of the league are shopping in Poundland that it would be the best thing to happen to the league maybe ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, gannonball said: It was pretty trivial tbh as it was debating whether higher calibre players benefit the league. I think most are on here because they have a general interest in Scottish football otherwise we would be on dedicated club forums. I get MT's side as of course it will benefit the clubs who have the players more but to suggest there is no benefit at all is an opinion rather than fact as it’s how you see the benefit in terms of financial or competiveness. Even an established league like Serie A experienced an increase in sponsorship when Ronaldo was announced for Juve. Yes, but as far as I'm concerned, a slightly improved sponsorship deal is of truly negligible benefit. When it's set against the fact that the already strongest sides get to field great players, the relative effect is of course negative for everyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 This discussion is a close relative of the annual 'Should we be happy when the OF qualify for the Champions' League?' chat. OF fans fall over themselves to point out that other clubs get chucked a few quid and make out that we should be happy with that. But they completely miss the point that they make so much money from the enterprise that the other clubs would be better off overall if none of it happened whatsoever. They just don't see football in the same way. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: This discussion is a close relative of the annual 'Should we be happy when the OF qualify for the Champions' League?' chat. OF fans fall over themselves to point out that other clubs get chucked a few quid and make out that we should be happy with that. But they completely miss the point that they make so much money from the enterprise that the other clubs would be better off overall if none of it happened whatsoever. They just don't see football in the same way. I'm thinking maybe competitive sport isn't really for supporters of Rangers & Celtic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, kennie makevin said: I'm thinking maybe competitive sport isn't really for supporters of Rangers & Celtic. Ha, nice one. I've genuinely had that line thrown at me without irony by a Celtic fan on here before. You're right. It's literally the opposite of the situation. It's that illusion of competition that's again, so appealing. For many of them, the last thing they'd want would be fair fights. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: This discussion is a close relative of the annual 'Should we be happy when the OF qualify for the Champions' League?' chat. OF fans fall over themselves to point out that other clubs get chucked a few quid and make out that we should be happy with that. But they completely miss the point that they make so much money from the enterprise that the other clubs would be better off overall if none of it happened whatsoever. They just don't see football in the same way. I think it comes from a lack of any genuine scrutiny. They know that the current set up suits them fine because they usually win their matches and they get to contest the trophies. That's fine, so why look beyond it? When irritating types like us cast up the injustice and resulting futility of it all, then refuge is to be found in saying others benefit too. It's much easier than recognising that football finances only have relevance if considered relatively, and that the entire point is for clubs to compete with each other using resources that cost money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressball Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 47 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: I think it comes from a lack of any genuine scrutiny. They know that the current set up suits them fine because they usually win their matches and they get to contest the trophies. That's fine, so why look beyond it? When irritating types like us cast up the injustice and resulting futility of it all, then refuge is to be found in saying others benefit too. It's much easier than recognising that football finances only have relevance if considered relatively, and that the entire point is for clubs to compete with each other using resources that cost money. Futile, sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, stressball said: Futile, sure. Yes, futile. Celtic might win it this year. If they don't they'll have an excellent chance next time. They'll win the league several times over the next decade. Those triumphs will become largely indistinguishable from each other, even for their own fans. Futile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressball Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Yes, futile. Celtic might win it this year. If they don't they'll have an excellent chance next time. They'll win the league several times over the next decade. Those triumphs will become largely indistinguishable from each other, even for their own fans. Futile. I agreed that that was futile bud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Those triumphs will become largely indistinguishable from each other, even for their own fans. Futile. No offence but that’s utter pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Jinky67 said: No offence but that’s utter pish. Almost as bad as the “you must get bored of winning” chat you hear from opposition fans Or my personal favourite is how we don’t really know what it’s like to celebrate winning something It’s hilarious from them at times 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Almost as bad as the “you must get bored of winning” chat you hear from opposition fans Or my personal favourite is how we don’t really know what it’s like to celebrate winning something It’s hilarious from them at times Imagine saying that shit to Novak Djokovic, Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes for example or just any other successful sportsman or sports team that go through a sustained period of dominance. They would and quite rightly so laugh like f**k at you. Edited July 28, 2022 by Jinky67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Imagine saying that shit to Novak Djokovic, Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes for example or just any other successful sportsman or sports team that go through a sustained period of dominance. They would and quite rightly so laugh like f**k at you. Oh, this is terrific. You're likening the experience of being you who supports a team that plays with loaded dice, to that of actually being Novak Djokovic, arguably the best ever at an individual sport. Hats off. That's magnificent work. Edited July 28, 2022 by Monkey Tennis 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Almost as bad as the “you must get bored of winning” chat you hear from opposition fans Or my personal favourite is how we don’t really know what it’s like to celebrate winning something It’s hilarious from them at times You must get bored of winning. Otherwise, that points to failings in an adult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: You must get bored of winning. Otherwise, that points to failings in an adult. I must? Because I enjoy seeing my team win at football I must be failing as an adult Fucking hell have a listen to yourself 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: No offence but that’s utter pish. Monkey has a point, a lot of our wins did become indistinguishable from each other and we were mostly going through the motions celebrating. I never realised that until 55 and how much it genuinely meant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Clown Job said: I must? Because I enjoy seeing my team win at football I must be failing as an adult Fucking hell have a listen to yourself Well, when you know how uneven the playing field is, yeah. I wouldn't get any great kick from seeing us hammering Dalbeattie Star of St Cuthbert's Wanderers each week, because I'd know I was witnessing total mismatches. Seriously, where's the fun in that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Oh, this is terrific. You're likening the experience of being you who supports a team that plays with loaded dice, to that of actually being Novak Djokovic, arguably the best ever at an individual sport. Hats off. That's magnificent work. Do you think he gets bored of winning? Does his titles become indistinguishable because he has now won so many? Probably easier to answer how many fucks he gives. I also mentioned Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton who have had the loaded dice accusation flung at them repeatedly but the simple truth is that it’s not Celtic or Rangers responsibility to level the playing field, lower standards or stop investing in their squads that responsibility is for the rest of Scottish football and the suggestion it can’t be done is laughable, we saw an example of this the season after last with Lille who have a turnover 10 times less than PSG. Or you can just keep fucking crying about it, I’m happy either way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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