The Celtic All Seasons thread

[Jinky67]

11 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Our turnover is going to come down with the affect of covid 19,Hospitality and match day revenue the club will lose millions.
Biscuit tin mentality is mince, we haven't sold any of our main assets plus we have strengthen the squad this season,some players need more time than others.
For me it's not the time to press the button no where near the Bayern example yet,Rodgers got the pumping's in Europe he wasn't sacked.
Losing to sevco was inevitable in one off games plus there is no way we will go into another Glasgow derby with the same problems we had recently.
My expectations of Celtic are win the league and do better in Europe, one off cup games never take them for granted.
You can play the performances v results debate all day long but Lennon has only lost one game in 24 domestically, do you really think that is a sack-able run of results?

Your point about the players we had to let go to reduce the wage bill were all pre-Covid with the exception of Hayes. No one could expect a downturn in revenue at that point so that point is moot.

The fact you can accept loosing to Rangers as an inevitability alarms me, it should never be inevitable or indeed acceptable to lose those games especially at home again considering the squad depth and advantage we have.

 

[d31]

50 minutes ago, gannonball said:

You say its similar but at the end of the day getting getting absolutely humped 5-1 is not the same as losing 2-0 or drawing 3-3. ‘Performances’ are more subjective to an extent but at the end of the day its actual results that will define a managers position.
Lennon also hasnt singled out a particular player like you mentioned Kovac did. So all in all its not hugely comparable is it?

Having said all this his reactions (or lack of) on the touchlines yesterday does actually make me worry for him, he says he's mellowed but he had the look of a man that was far too sedated...

This week is huge for him but it also gives us a bit of time before league business which frankly is all we really care about this year. 2 games to get us back in gear if it doesn’t happen then adios for me. It can also be a time used to draw up a potential list.

It would be three games isn't it before back to league business?

It's a good chance to get the poor run out of the way without any damage to the league campaign.

Then it's only one match and 2 weeks off for internationals.

[wastecoatwilly]

12 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Your point about the players we had to let go to reduce the wage bill were all pre-Covid with the exception of Hayes. No one could expect a downturn in revenue at that point so that point is moot.

The fact you can accept loosing to Rangers as an inevitability alarms me, it should never be inevitable or indeed acceptable to lose those games especially at home again considering the squad depth and advantage we have.

 

You didn't answer my question plus it took 23 games for Celtic to lose to Livingston that's the inevitability never acceptable but acceptable Celtic will lose games every season bar one the 2016-17 season.

[Jinky67]

30 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

You didn't answer my question plus it took 23 games for Celtic to lose to Livingston that's the inevitability never acceptable but acceptable Celtic will lose games every season bar one the 2016-17 season.

Tommy Burns lost once in 36 games, we still lost the league. Draws in this league to every club outwith Rangers is as damaging as a loss

Fact is we are dropping too many points and the inevitability is that will continue, we were scraping past teams and the inevitability was that our luck would run out and it has and will continue to do so because performance levels have been poor all season and nothing has been done to address that in 3 months so they will be continue to be poor. If Lennon knew how to change that we would already have seen some change in the way we are playing and we haven’t, defensively we are still a disaster. Lennon told us the answer to that problem was Duffy when in fact he has just made the problem worse which again suggests he doesn’t have the answer so this issue will persist.

So yes in my opinion he should go but the difference now is that my opinion is no longer a minority one among Celtic fans and the majority outwith Celtic can also see he doesn’t have the answers. 

Bringing the thunder back I think was the phrase he used, well where the f**k is it Neil. 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Jinky67

[DukDukGoose]

14 hours ago, G51 said:

Rangers wage bill is less than 50% of Celtic's.

If Celtic do not win the league then they will have wasted a colossal financial advantage and will likely have to significantly downsize as a consequence. Rangers will have done well, bought wisely and managed prudently if that happens, but ultimately it'll be more down to Celtic's mismanagement than Rangers success.

Have Rangers bought well though? I'd say in Gerrards time he has more duds than good signings.

Rangers are turning the draws in to wins from last season while Celtic toil.

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Have Rangers bought well though? I'd say in Gerrards time he has more duds than good signings.

Rangers are turning the draws in to wins from last season while Celtic toil.

I think Rangers have bought pretty well, especially since Ross Wilson came in.

Hits: Roofe, Hagi, Bassey, McLaughlin, Balogun, Kent, Helander, Aribo, Davis, Goldson, Barisic, Katic, Kamara, McGregor, Arfield, Defoe

Wait and see: Itten, Zungu, Edmundson, Middleton

Meh / Misses: Jones, Barker, Stewart, Hastie, Ojo, King, Grezda, Murphy, Lafferty, Flanagan, Polster, Coulbaly, Worrall, Sadiq, McAuley

There's also Kamberi who didn't really get a chance to go either way because of the Unpleasantness.

What stands out is that the duds are all Mark Allen signings - Ross WIlson didn't sign a single one of them. And of the duds, only three of them cost a transfer fee. The rest were either free transfers or loans, so you're not losing much on them.

[DukDukGoose]

14 minutes ago, G51 said:

I think Rangers have bought pretty well, especially since Ross Wilson came in.

Hits: Roofe, Hagi, Bassey, McLaughlin, Balogun, Kent, Helander, Aribo, Davis, Goldson, Barisic, Katic, Kamara, McGregor, Arfield, Defoe

Wait and see: Itten, Zungu, Edmundson, Middleton

Meh / Misses: Jones, Barker, Stewart, Hastie, Ojo, King, Grezda, Murphy, Lafferty, Flanagan, Polster, Coulbaly, Worrall, Sadiq, McAuley

There's also Kamberi who didn't really get a chance to go either way because of the Unpleasantness.

What stands out is that the duds are all Mark Allen signings - Ross WIlson didn't sign a single one of them. And of the duds, only three of them cost a transfer fee. The rest were either free transfers or loans, so you're not losing much on them.

That hits list is wild.

Roofe, Hagi, Bassey, Balogun, Helander, Davis, Katic and Defoe can hardly be considered hits. Some of them have barely been here a couple of months. Some of them have been part of Rangers teams that have won nothing over a decent period of time and cost far higher than the diddies pay in fees and wages.

Edmundson and Middleton are in the misses for sure.

Kent is a good player but you way overpaid for him too.

[G51]

5 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

That hits list is wild.

Roofe, Hagi, Bassey, Balogun, Helander, Davis, Katic and Defoe can hardly be considered hits. Some of them have barely been here a couple of months. Some of them have been part of Rangers teams that have won nothing over a decent period of time and cost far higher than the diddies pay in fees and wages.

Edmundson and Middleton are in the misses for sure.

Kent is a good player but you way overpaid for him too.

Seriously?

Davis and Helander are not just first team players, but they're key players. If that doesn't make you a hit then I don't know what does?

Roofe and Hagi are in the strongest XI when everyone's fit. Bassey and Balogun were brought in as depth and have already proven capable of producing performances. Defoe cost nothing and has scored 27 goals in 56 games. Katic has been instrumental in some of our biggest victories and would be again this season if he hadn't torn his ACL in July.

Edmundson was brought in as the fourth choice CB and has done fine when needed. Can't really ask for much more than that from a young player still developing. And Middleton is still young enough that he can develop - player progression isn't linear.

We've already had offers from Kent that allow us to make a significant profit on him, so it's hard to argue we've overpaid in that regard.

[Old Pack]

Remember the Brendan Rodgers Here for 10 in a row ditty [emoji23]
Celtic are going to look like proper c***s if they don’t win it this year and will never live it down.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

Seriously?

Roofe hasn't even played 350 minutes in the league yet, its mental you've listed him as a successful signing this early.

[Bairnardo]

Aye but he scored from his own half

Roofe hasn't even played 350 minutes in the league yet, its mental you've listed him as a successful signing this early.

[ewan14]

19 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

I think people underestimate how crucial Fraser Forster was to Celtic last season in covering up a lot of deficiencies. They would have lost the League Cup Final to Rangers, and would have struggled to qualify from their Europa League group as his performances in that were outstanding - both Lazio games would have gone the other way for a start. Particularly when you compare him to Scott Bain - him chucking in goals against Cluj was the reason they were in that competition to start with.  Many other times he saved them when previous keepers like Bain and Gordon wouldn't. If they hadn't got him in last season I think this point would have been reached sooner, I don't think the team from 2-11 is considerably worse than last season. They've lost Forster and are missing Forrest and Edouard, if you'd taken those 3 out last season they'd have been hopeless then too. It took Rangers completely collapsing after Christmas to give Celtic the title last year. Rangers just need to make sure they are broadly similar to last year and don't have a major meltdown after Christmas and they will win the league.

Lennon is clearly useless, but it's also poor recruitment over the last couple of years. Those 2 things are now tieing together. When you think how far in front they were under Rodgers and the money they have taken in it's incredible mismanagement at every level to now be in this situation.

They are missing Julien (?) as well

Did Celtic not play him and Kris ( no lack of confidence ) Ajer as their centre halves last year ?

( I do not know about his defending but Ajer is really good at bringing the ball forward , aux H#ns#n . )

Do you think Lennon should still be playing Brown ( and Ntcham ) ?

Edited October 26, 2020 by ewan14

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Aye but he scored from his own half

Crazy. 

Tbf though, Middletons been there 4 seasons, played about 15 games and couldn't get on Hibs bench, yet isn't classed as a failure, so anything seems to go when rating players.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

8 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Aye but he scored from his own half

Did you not know mate ? - they’ve added 2 new categories on to the ‘what makes a successful signing for the Old Firm list’.
 
1. They can score from their own half (Roofe)

2. They can say something funny after an Old Firm game (Frimpong)

Both are now world class.

[ewan14]

36 minutes ago, ewan14 said:

They are missing Julien (?) as well

Did Celtic not play him and Kris ( no lack of confidence ) Ajer as their centre halves last year ?

( I do not know about his defending but Ajer is really good at bringing the ball forward , aux H#ns#n . )

Do you think Lennon should still be playing Brown ( and Ntcham ) ?

 

[DukDukGoose]

2 hours ago, G51 said:

Seriously?

Davis and Helander are not just first team players, but they're key players. If that doesn't make you a hit then I don't know what does?

Roofe and Hagi are in the strongest XI when everyone's fit. Bassey and Balogun were brought in as depth and have already proven capable of producing performances. Defoe cost nothing and has scored 27 goals in 56 games. Katic has been instrumental in some of our biggest victories and would be again this season if he hadn't torn his ACL in July.

Edmundson was brought in as the fourth choice CB and has done fine when needed. Can't really ask for much more than that from a young player still developing. And Middleton is still young enough that he can develop - player progression isn't linear.

We've already had offers from Kent that allow us to make a significant profit on him, so it's hard to argue we've overpaid in that regard.

I'm going to leave it there as you have your opinion and I have mine. We'll just go round in circles. I will add the money you're paying these folk to be bit part players and have yet to win anything is why I couldn't them a hit.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I'm going to leave it there as you have your opinion and I have mine. We'll just go round in circles. I will add the money you're paying these folk to be bit part players and have yet to win anything is why I couldn't them a hit.

Jermain "didn't cost a penny" Defoe , who earns £35k a week, was my favourite bit of whataboutery.

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Jermain "didn't cost a penny" Defoe , who earns £35k a week, was my favourite bit of whataboutery.

Yeah, exactly.

[G51]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Roofe hasn't even played 350 minutes in the league yet, its mental you've listed him as a successful signing this early.

Roofe is clearly our first choice striker. He's the ideal fit for the system we play and has already shown his ability within it in the 400 minutes he's played for us. I've absolutely no hesitation in saying that he is and will continue to be a good signing for Rangers barring some kind of catastrophic injury. But even if you want to move him to the "We'll see" category, it's still a good return on signings especially when you consider the outlay on the respective players.

16 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Jermain "didn't cost a penny" Defoe , who earns £35k a week, was my favourite bit of whataboutery.

I don't think you understand the definition of whataboutery.

From what I can find, Defoe is on £30k/week. But in any case, there's no real arguing with his output. It'll take some effort to argue that a striker scoring a goal every two games isn't a successful signing.

32 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I'm going to leave it there as you have your opinion and I have mine. We'll just go round in circles. I will add the money you're paying these folk to be bit part players and have yet to win anything is why I couldn't them a hit.

I would highly doubt that we pay our bit-part players a higher percentage of our annual wage bill than, say, Aberdeen do. And judging individuals solely on the basis of team success is a really bad way of evaluating players. Nevertheless, it's a shame you want to leave it there.

[8MileBU]

15 minutes ago, G51 said:

Roofe is clearly our first choice striker. He's the ideal fit for the system we play and has already shown his ability within it in the 400 minutes he's played for us. I've absolutely no hesitation in saying that he is and will continue to be a good signing for Rangers barring some kind of catastrophic injury. But even if you want to move him to the "We'll see" category, it's still a good return on signings especially when you consider the outlay on the respective players.

I don't think you understand the definition of whataboutery.

From what I can find, Defoe is on £30k/week. But in any case, there's no real arguing with his output. It'll take some effort to argue that a striker scoring a goal every two games isn't a successful signing.

I would highly doubt that we pay our bit-part players a higher percentage of our annual wage bill than, say, Aberdeen do. And judging individuals solely on the basis of team success is a really bad way of evaluating players. Nevertheless, it's a shame you want to leave it there.

I think you’re maybe a bit wide of the mark there mate. Morelos still the main man up front and it’ll take a long barren spell without scoring (unlikely) to change that. You also need to factor in that as long as he’s getting goals he remains (probably) Rangers most profitable asset from a selling point of view.

Edited October 26, 2020 by 8MileBU