The Celtic All Seasons thread

[Jinky67]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Celtic are allowed to have a bad week mate,just because it does nae happen that often there is no need to throw your toys out the pram. 

We are now almost 3 months into the season and we have a manager the doesn’t know what is his best 11, formation or shape. His tactics and team sheet seemingly pulled from fan reaction on Twitter as he tries to court favour with the fans. We have been embarrassed in Europe, outclassed and dominated by an unspectacular Rangers team who didn’t have do anything spectacular to beat us. The standard of performances are alarming and there is nothing that suggests it is being addressed in an effective manner. The quality of signings also alarming now that we see the level of performance they are capable of and how much we have paid for their services and our players are regressing some have gone missing entirely. 

But just a bad week eh?

[wastecoatwilly]

40 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

We are now almost 3 months into the season and we have a manager the doesn’t know what is his best 11, formation or shape. His tactics and team sheet seemingly pulled from fan reaction on Twitter as he tries to court favour with the fans. We have been embarrassed in Europe, outclassed and dominated by an unspectacular Rangers team who didn’t have do anything spectacular to beat us. The standard of performances are alarming and there is nothing that suggests it is being addressed in an effective manner. The quality of signings also alarming now that we see the level of performance they are capable of and how much we have paid for their services and our players are regressing some have gone missing entirely. 

But just a bad week eh?

I have no problem with you wanting Lennon out,your expectations are higher than mine.
The things that annoy me is when fans pick on poor performances when we win games, for me they underestimate the team we are playing and only focus on what Celtic didn't do.
It's easier to criticize Celtic rather than look at what the opposition did,Sevco were the better team and fenercvaros got lucky with Lennon getting it wrong.
We are missing big Jullien and Duffy is getting exposed by Frimpong's lack of defending as far as our new signings go so far Ajeti and Laxult have improved our already great squad.

 

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I have no problem with you wanting Lennon out,your expectations are higher than mine.
The things that annoy me is when fans pick on poor performances when we win games, for me they underestimate the team we are playing and only focus on what Celtic didn't do.
It's easier to criticize Celtic rather than look at what the opposition did,Sevco were the better team and fenercvaros got lucky with Lennon getting it wrong.
We are missing big Jullien and Duffy is getting exposed by Frimpong's lack of defending as far as our new signings go so far Ajeti and Laxult have improved our already great squad.

 

I seriously hope the chief decision makers at Celtic have the same opinion as yourself.

I’m in no way claiming that Rangers will win the league, but I think our chances are significantly improved if they are willing to overlook Celtic’s deficiencies like you are.

[wastecoatwilly]

8 minutes ago, AJF said:

I seriously hope the chief decision makers at Celtic have the same opinion as yourself.

I’m in no way claiming that Rangers will win the league, but I think our chances are significantly improved if they are willing to overlook Celtic’s deficiencies like you are.

Every team has deficiencies and it's about time you lot made us work for our trophies, some fans think Celtic can only beat ourselves we certainly make it hard sometimes but nobody is saying it's easy.
We welcome the chase.

[G51]

4 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Every team has deficiencies and it's about time you lot made us work for our trophies, some fans think Celtic can only beat ourselves we certainly make it hard sometimes but nobody is saying it's easy.
We welcome the chase.

Rangers wage bill is less than 50% of Celtic's.

If Celtic do not win the league then they will have wasted a colossal financial advantage and will likely have to significantly downsize as a consequence. Rangers will have done well, bought wisely and managed prudently if that happens, but ultimately it'll be more down to Celtic's mismanagement than Rangers success.

[velo army]

7 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Every team has deficiencies and it's about time you lot made us work for our trophies, some fans think Celtic can only beat ourselves we certainly make it hard sometimes but nobody is saying it's easy.
We welcome the chase.

They're not chasing you mate, they're 6 points clear.

[gannonball]

5 minutes ago, G51 said:

Rangers wage bill is less than 50% of Celtic's.

If Celtic do not win the league then they will have wasted a colossal financial advantage and will likely have to significantly downsize as a consequence. Rangers will have done well, bought wisely and managed prudently if that happens, but ultimately it'll be more down to Celtic's mismanagement than Rangers success.

It isn't I dont think. The 60 million stuff people love to quote I think is from our last champions league season with the significant bonuses that come with it. Our squad is much leaner now also and were no longer paying a premier league wage to a manager with an extensive back room staff. When you take in to account player trading as well I don't think there really that far apart at all. 

[Jinky67]

42 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I have no problem with you wanting Lennon out,your expectations are higher than mine.
The things that annoy me is when fans pick on poor performances when we win games, for me they underestimate the team we are playing and only focus on what Celtic didn't do.
It's easier to criticize Celtic rather than look at what the opposition did,Sevco were the better team and fenercvaros got lucky with Lennon getting it wrong.
We are missing big Jullien and Duffy is getting exposed by Frimpong's lack of defending as far as our new signings go so far Ajeti and Laxult have improved our already great squad.

 

I’m interested as to what exactly your expectations are exactly?

Here is the thing though, we shouldn’t have to worry about underestimating the likes of Ferencvaros or indeed Rangers such are the advantages we have over these teams, the outcome of those matches should be entirely within our control.

 What I do worry is about is the regression. We are going backwards so quickly you would think the PLC was being run by Marty McFly and Doc Brown. I also worry about fans who paper over this because in “Lenny they trust” and they remember one night were he conjured a miracle against Barcelona. 

As for your point about our already great squad? You neglect to mention those he has let go. Hayes, Jozo, Sviatchenko, Boyata, Lustig and Scott Sinclair were all probably better than the replacements brought in.....every single one of them.

He was handed a squad that was able to stroll this league at a canter and he has subsequently destroyed their confidence, belief and motivation. However there has been no announcement which suggest PL’s ego isn’t quite able to accept he has made a rip roaring c**t of this one. He had the opportunity to take us further ahead of Rangers and look to hire someone who would take us back into the Champions League and further develop our talent. He hasn’t and for me that is indefensible 

 

 

 

[G51]

Just now, gannonball said:

It isn't I dont think. The 60 million stuff people love to quote I think is from our last champions league season with the significant bonuses that come with it. Our squad is much leaner now also and were no longer paying a premier league wage to a manager with an extensive back room staff. When you take in to account player trading as well I don't think there really that far apart at all. 

I'm just going off what our new investor Stuart GIbson said in his interview last weekend. To be fair, he said it was half, not less than half, so I should correct myself there.

Latest Celtic accounts show it was 59m in 2018, 56m in 2019. Celtic have signed more players since then. Obviously not all of the 56m is player salaries, but the overwhelming majority will be.

http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/CelticPLC_Annual_Report_2019.pdf

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

I’m interested as to what exactly your expectations are exactly?

Here is the thing though, we shouldn’t have to worry about underestimating the likes of Ferencvaros or indeed Rangers such are the advantages we have over these teams, the outcome of those matches should be entirely within our control.

 What I do worry is about is the regression. We are going backwards so quickly you would think the PLC was being run by Marty McFly and Doc Brown. I also worry about fans who paper over this because in “Lenny they trust” and they remember one night were he conjured a miracle against Barcelona. 

As for your point about our already great squad? You neglect to mention those he has let go. Hayes, Jozo, Sviatchenko, Boyata, Lustig and Scott Sinclair were all probably better than the replacements brought in.....every single one of them.

He was handed a squad that was able to stroll this league at a canter and he has subsequently destroyed their confidence, belief and motivation. However there has been no announcement which suggest PL’s ego isn’t quite able to accept he has made a rip roaring c**t of this one. He had the opportunity to take us further ahead of Rangers and look to hire someone who would take us back into the Champions League and further develop our talent. He hasn’t and for me that is indefensible 

 

 

 

Lennon has earned his stripes and deserves his chance at the 10iar.
The Fenencvaros result isn't exclusive to Lennon, Rodgers had his Lincoln red imps  ,Deila had Malmo, Strachan had Bratislava these results keep happening maybe if it was two games we could've went through.
I think the wage bill was too high when Rodgers was in charge and it had to be addressed and it has also Rodgers recruitment was shocking and we are paying the price for that.
This team was built by Lennon and Deila there is no doubt Rodgers put things in place to help us on the way but he could only improve the players already here.
You could look at this as a glass ceiling can the club go any further,the worry is Celtic could fall off a cliff whether we get the 10 or not.
Boyata and Sviatchenko wanted to leave Jozo was too injury prone,Hayes and Lustig are coming to the end of their careers,Sinclair was a high earner.
For me the transfers have been good and will prove that through the rest of the season,we are in 5 competitions so we don't have a best 11 we need a best 20. 

[Jinky67]

7 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Lennon has earned his stripes and deserves his chance at the 10iar.
The Fenencvaros result isn't exclusive to Lennon, Rodgers had his Lincoln red imps  ,Deila had Malmo, Strachan had Bratislava these results keep happening maybe if it was two games we could've went through.
I think the wage bill was too high when Rodgers was in charge and it had to be addressed and it has also Rodgers recruitment was shocking and we are paying the price for that.
This team was built by Lennon and Deila there is no doubt Rodgers put things in place to help us on the way but he could only improve the players already here.
You could look at this as a glass ceiling can the club go any further,the worry is Celtic could fall off a cliff whether we get the 10 or not.
Boyata and Sviatchenko wanted to leave Jozo was too injury prone,Hayes and Lustig are coming to the end of their careers,Sinclair was a high earner.
For me the transfers have been good and will prove that through the rest of the season,we are in 5 competitions so we don't have a best 11 we need a best 20. 

You think the wages are too high? So what you are saying is you don’t actually know and you are just speculating? Wages are only an issue if the club isn’t turning a profit which hasn’t been an issue for some seasons. 

Its the biscuit tin mentality yet again. A club being run in 2020 like its 1990 whereas we should be looking to the likes of Bayern Munich as an example of the right way to run a club. They were absolutely ruthless with Kovac despite him being an ex player and let him go as soon as it looked like the wheels were coming off and we all saw the results of that

You never answered my question though as to what your expectations of Celtic actually are?

Edited October 26, 2020 by Jinky67

[gannonball]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

You think the wages are too high? So what you are saying is you don’t actually know and you are just speculating? Wages are only an issue if the club isn’t turning a profit which hasn’t been an issue for some seasons. 

Its the biscuit tin mentality yet again. A club being run in 2020 like its 1990 whereas we should be looking to the likes of Bayern Munich as an example of the right way to run a club. They were absolutely ruthless with Kovac despite him being an ex player and let him go as soon as it looked like the wheels were coming off and we all saw the results of that

You never answered my question though as to what your expectations of Celtic actually are?

Bayern were 4th and were just beaten 5-1. I dont see the two situations as greatly comparable tbh. If the same happened to us he would have been binned.

Edited October 26, 2020 by gannonball

[Bairnardo]

Wastecoatwilly is the reason why it's all going up in smoke tbh. Not just him obvs, but he is a perfect illustration. Head absolute buried for reasons most cant begin to fathom.

[Bohemian]

24 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Wastecoatwilly is the reason why it's all going up in smoke tbh. Not just him obvs, but he is a perfect illustration. Head absolute buried for reasons most cant begin to fathom.

Hes in the minority at this stage.  Most Celtic fans seemed to have woken up to the fact Lennon is a complete bluffer. Unfortunately for them and fortunately for the rest of us Peter Lawwell and Dermot Desmond are not two of them... 

Sevco clear favourites to win the league and largely due to Lennon...

[Dons_1988]

I think Lawwell might panic soon if it continues in this vein.

[Bohemian]

19 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think Lawwell might panic soon if it continues in this vein.

Sack him in the showers of Hampden next week after you beat them.. that would be Banterrific..

[Jinky67]

1 hour ago, gannonball said:

Bayern were 4th and were just beaten 5-1. I dont see the two situations as greatly comparable tbh. If the same happened to us he would have been binned.

If you follow Bundesliga you would see they are very similar. The performances up until that point were sub par and scraping past tema with lacklustre performances excluding the 7-2 smashing of Spurs. The 5-1 and the manner of it was the straw that broke the camels back, their worst result and performance in a decade. That old firm performance was our worst in 20 years and if Rangers actually applied themselves it could have easily been 5 also our performances echo Bayern’s up until that point. There were rumours prior to this that he would be binned. He was outing players such as Muller in the press, the team had lost all defensive shape and although they would dominate teams they scraped by the likes of Paderborn. Any of this sound familiar?

Bayern were only 4 points behind MGB when they sacked Kovac, just 4 but the writing was on the wall just as it is with Celtic but the difference is they have strong and decisive leadership who have ambition, we don’t. The only reason they ended up 4th is because let’s face it Bundesliga is a more competitive league than ours so they are more teams chasing Bayern, we only have Rangers but as I said they were only 4 points behind. 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Jinky67

[gannonball]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If you follow Bundesliga you would see they are very similar. The performances up until that point were sub par and scraping past tema with lacklustre performances excluding the 7-2 smashing of Spurs. The 5-1 and the manner of it was the straw that broke the camels back, their worst result and performance in a decade. That old firm performance was our worst in 20 years and if Rangers actually applied themselves it could have easily been 5 also our performances echo Bayern’s up until that point. There were rumours prior to this that he would be binned. He was outing players such as Muller in the press, the team had lost all defensive shape and although they would dominate teams they scraped by the likes of Paderborn. Any of this sound familiar?

Bayern were only 4 points behind MGB when they sacked Kovac, just 4 but the writing was on the wall just as it is with Celtic but the difference is they have strong and decisive leadership who have ambition, we don’t. The only reason they ended up 4th is because let’s face it Bundesliga is a more competitive league than ours so they are more teams chasing Bayern, we only have Rangers but as I said they were only 4 points behind. 

 

 

 

You say its similar but at the end of the day getting getting absolutely humped 5-1 is not the same as losing 2-0 or drawing 3-3. ‘Performances’ are more subjective to an extent but at the end of the day its actual results that will define a managers position.
Lennon also hasnt singled out a particular player like you mentioned Kovac did. So all in all its not hugely comparable is it?

Having said all this his reactions (or lack of) on the touchlines yesterday does actually make me worry for him, he says he's mellowed but he had the look of a man that was far too sedated...

This week is huge for him but it also gives us a bit of time before league business which frankly is all we really care about this year. 2 games to get us back in gear if it doesn’t happen then adios for me. It can also be a time used to draw up a potential list.

[Derry Alli]

48 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think Lawwell might panic soon if it continues in this vein.

Of course he will. It would start making impacts on his own bonus' and for that reason Celtic and Neil Lennon will come to an agreement to part ways. I can't see it being put on record he was sacked. 

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

You think the wages are too high? So what you are saying is you don’t actually know and you are just speculating? Wages are only an issue if the club isn’t turning a profit which hasn’t been an issue for some seasons. 

Its the biscuit tin mentality yet again. A club being run in 2020 like its 1990 whereas we should be looking to the likes of Bayern Munich as an example of the right way to run a club. They were absolutely ruthless with Kovac despite him being an ex player and let him go as soon as it looked like the wheels were coming off and we all saw the results of that

You never answered my question though as to what your expectations of Celtic actually are?

Our turnover is going to come down with the affect of covid 19,Hospitality and match day revenue the club will lose millions.
Biscuit tin mentality is mince, we haven't sold any of our main assets plus we have strengthen the squad this season,some players need more time than others.
For me it's not the time to press the button no where near the Bayern example yet,Rodgers got the pumping's in Europe he wasn't sacked.
Losing to sevco was inevitable in one off games plus there is no way we will go into another Glasgow derby with the same problems we had recently.
My expectations of Celtic are win the league and do better in Europe, one off cup games never take them for granted.
You can play the performances v results debate all day long but Lennon has only lost one game in 24 domestically, do you really think that is a sack-able run of results?