Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

3 hours ago, gogsy said:

 Highland league aren't interested in a national non league competition either.

Even if there was interest, the HFL would find it unattractive to participate in a new national non league competition, given the number of league matches they currently play, and (100%) participation in the Scottish Cup (top HFL teams frequently play in 3 or 4 rounds), and the higher number of postponements in the Highland Region owing to adverse weather.  Also costs would probably exceed cup revenue, for most if not all of its clubs.

The size of the HFL division (17 clubs since Cove were promoted), could increase next season, if Brechin City are relegated (replaced by Kelty or Bonnyrigg), and/or Banks O'Dee apply to join the HFL, increasing the number of clubs to 18 or 19.

 

[Doonhamer1969]

11 hours ago, craigkillie said:

12 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Given the gulf in quality is why we have the attitudes of juniors thinking they should be on par with the english premiership 

The only time there was a play-off it finished 10-0 on aggregate. There is clearly a massive gulf in quality which is something would expect even SoS fans would admit.

As that involved Kelty, who have gone from the EoS straight to the top of the LL, its hardly a fair comparison of overall quality between the leagues.

[Burnie_man]

38 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

I really don't think it's that difficult.

If there's a WOS league next season it gets added to the South Challenge Cup regulations as one of the eligible leagues, these clubs will now be senior so can't play in the Junior Cup.

The same can be done if the entire West Region moved into tier 6-9, and it would then be a replacement for the Junior Cup.

However if the SJFA want the Junior Cup to be the non-league cup instead, they can change their rules and invite senior clubs, then a discussion can take place about the different regulations (reimbursement of travel costs, split gates, replays, etc).

In the South Challenge Cup you get travel subsidies to help towards costs.

£300 when the distance is more than 120 miles, £250 when the distance is more than 100 miles , £200 when the distance is more than 80 miles, £150 when the distance is more than 50 miles.    No guarantees need to be paid by home club to the away team.  Home team keeps gate money.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Burnie_man

[Marten]

I'd love to see a national non-league cup, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get off the ground. Merge the South Region Challenge Cup with the Junior Cup, invite Highland League & North Caledonian League clubs (if they don't want to play in it, it's their choice, at least invite them) and you'll have a great competition. Hopefully indeed bring it under the SFA and play the final at Hampden. I love the Junior Cup, I've had some great trips with Lochee United, but it's nowadays really just an Ayrshire/Lanarkshire/Tayside cup with a few other teams who are usually out pretty quickly. Some diferent opponents and new places to go to sounds good to me.

[Doonhamer1969]

7 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Even if there was interest, the HFL would find it unattractive to participate in a new national non league competition, given the number of league matches they currently play, and (100%) participation in the Scottish Cup (top HFL teams frequently play in 3 or 4 rounds), and the higher number of postponements in the Highland Region owing to adverse weather.  Also costs would probably exceed cup revenue, for most if not all of its clubs.

The size of the HFL division (17 clubs since Cove were promoted), could increase next season, if Brechin City are relegated (replaced by Kelty or Bonnyrigg), and/or Banks O'Dee apply to join the HFL, increasing the number of clubs to 18 or 19.

 

B of D unlikely to apply, as they have stated recently. 

If Brechin are relegated and replaced by a LL club, HFL wouldnt accept any new teams anyway, as they'd be back to their normal 18 clubs.

[Guest Moomintroll]

And that's your answer?
He's 'hinging it oot' for a big payout.
Big gamble there.
Surely he could be facing dismissal for gross misconduct in office by deliberately misleading his employers?

I don't think you understand how the SJFA works, TJ is absolutely bombproof no matter what he does.

[clash city rocker]

4 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

In the South Challenge Cup you get travel subsidies to help towards costs.

£300 when the distance is more than 120 miles, £250 when the distance is more than 100 miles , £200 when the distance is more than 80 miles, £150 when the distance is more than 50 miles.    No guarantees need to be paid by home club to the away team.  Home team keeps gate money.

Home team keeps gate money in a cup tie ? Good job you get travel subsidies or you wouldn't be going.

[Black Pennel]

Spot on.

Your team bus costs say three hundred...they subsidise it by 250. The club loses money. The supporters buses don't come into the equation at all. You can take a hundred people with you to play a team who usually get a crowd of 40 and the home team gets the gate money.

It's the luck of the draw...the romance of the cup and all that.

It's the future you know. Embrace progress. Learn to watch "soccer" while contained in a wire mesh cage without terracing.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[Cyclizine]

1 hour ago, Black Pennel said:

Spot on.

Your team bus costs say three hundred...they subsidise it by 250. The club loses money. The supporters buses don't come into the equation at all. You can take a hundred people with you to play a team who usually get a crowd of 40 and the home team gets the gate money.

It's the luck of the draw...the romance of the cup and all that.

It's the future you know. Embrace progress. Learn to watch "soccer" while contained in a wire mesh cage without terracing.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Alternatively, you take a few committee members from the West up to the North. There's a gate of 40. The essentially amateur North club loses money and struggles with the guarantee. Decides not to enter next year.

Romance of the cup and all that.

Swings and roundabouts.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, clash city rocker said:

Home team keeps gate money in a cup tie ? Good job you get travel subsidies or you wouldn't be going.

Its a point that was raised last year with the influx of ex-Juniors. Yet as far as i'm aware no one raised it officially as one to change, and obviously remains this year.

 

[parkcircus]

2 hours ago, Black Pennel said:

Spot on.

Your team bus costs say three hundred...they subsidise it by 250. The club loses money. The supporters buses don't come into the equation at all. You can take a hundred people with you to play a team who usually get a crowd of 40 and the home team gets the gate money.

It's the luck of the draw...the romance of the cup and all that.

It's the future you know. Embrace progress. Learn to watch "soccer" while contained in a wire mesh cage without terracing.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Buffs played Banks Of Dee, crowd of 65, bus cost £700, plus players food, another £200, gate brought in £130 and we got handed £275 as the minimum, both clubs lost money playing in the Scottish Junior Cup

[Guest]

Spot on.
Your team bus costs say three hundred...they subsidise it by 250. The club loses money. The supporters buses don't come into the equation at all. You can take a hundred people with you to play a team who usually get a crowd of 40 and the home team gets the gate money.
It's the luck of the draw...the romance of the cup and all that.
It's the future you know. Embrace progress. Learn to watch "soccer" while contained in a wire mesh cage without terracing.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

If a club is entering the cup to get away gate receipts and has banked on that then I'd suggest not entering the cup or managing funds better.

This set up has operated for a number of years in the eos, successfully.

Supporters buses etc dont really enter the equation for me.

[Burnie_man]

Buffs played Banks Of Dee, crowd of 65, bus cost £700, plus players food, another £200, gate brought in £130 and we got handed £275 as the minimum, both clubs lost money playing in the Scottish Junior Cup

Ditto for us, twice in our final Junior season, away to Aberdeen East End and home to Colony Park. Lost money both games.

[jimbaxters]

9 hours ago, Marten said:

I'd love to see a national non-league cup, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get off the ground. Merge the South Region Challenge Cup with the Junior Cup, invite Highland League & North Caledonian League clubs (if they don't want to play in it, it's their choice, at least invite them) and you'll have a great competition. Hopefully indeed bring it under the SFA and play the final at Hampden. I love the Junior Cup, I've had some great trips with Lochee United, but it's nowadays really just an Ayrshire/Lanarkshire/Tayside cup with a few other teams who are usually out pretty quickly. Some diferent opponents and new places to go to sounds good to me.

Isa suggested this many times and got roasted for it.

[Marten]

1 minute ago, jimbaxters said:

Isa suggested this many times and got roasted for it.

To be fair, I suggested this a few times as well. I think it's a good idea.

[John S]

Don't know about the details but a national tournament would be good. There was always something special about Scottish Junior Cup days.

I'd love to see a national non-league cup, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get off the ground. Merge the South Region Challenge Cup with the Junior Cup, invite Highland League & North Caledonian League clubs (if they don't want to play in it, it's their choice, at least invite them) and you'll have a great competition. Hopefully indeed bring it under the SFA and play the final at Hampden. I love the Junior Cup, I've had some great trips with Lochee United, but it's nowadays really just an Ayrshire/Lanarkshire/Tayside cup with a few other teams who are usually out pretty quickly. Some diferent opponents and new places to go to sounds good to me.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Spot on.
Your team bus costs say three hundred...they subsidise it by 250. The club loses money. The supporters buses don't come into the equation at all. You can take a hundred people with you to play a team who usually get a crowd of 40 and the home team gets the gate money.
It's the luck of the draw...the romance of the cup and all that.
It's the future you know. Embrace progress. Learn to watch "soccer" while contained in a wire mesh cage without terracing.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

No one is saying you have to be assimilated thats why people will be given the opportunity to submit a note of interest, no one is forcing Talbot to do anything. This will happen with or without Talbot, no one cares if they want to stay Junior or not.

[Burnie_man]

Spot on.
Your team bus costs say three hundred...they subsidise it by 250. The club loses money. The supporters buses don't come into the equation at all. You can take a hundred people with you to play a team who usually get a crowd of 40 and the home team gets the gate money.
It's the luck of the draw...the romance of the cup and all that.
It's the future you know. Embrace progress. Learn to watch "soccer" while contained in a wire mesh cage without terracing.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[emoji23][emoji23]

[southerner]

No one is saying you have to be assimilated thats why people will be given the opportunity to submit a note of interest, no one is forcing Talbot to do anything. This will happen with or without Talbot, no one cares if they want to stay Junior or not.

Spot on couldn’t agree more, but for some reason posters on this repetitive thread started to blame Talbot for the situation we have found ourselves in.

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Good morning BM and others.

Are you/we still expecting an official announcement today ?  Has there been any meaningful feedback/rumours over the last few days ?