Junior football, what is the future?

[glensmad]

35 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

If, as one of the Kilwinning guys claim, the WRJFA has had a dose of reality and now want to talk en-masse entry outwith the SJFA then a delay would be inevitable as surely they would be required to call an EGM to seek approval of members?

If however, the intention remains creating a WoSFL from scratch, then I'd expect an announcement from the LL this week.

 

The first scenario is what I have suggested could happen.

The threat of a breakaway West of Scotland League becoming reality could finally force the hand of the SJFA to go back to the SFA and say "can we now have Option W please ?"

Whether or not Option W remains on the table remains to be seen, given the reactions from the existing SFA leagues to the SJFA's email to its clubs after the PWG minute.

[Dev]

47 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Why should the 3rd best team in a league be considered better than the 2nd or 3rd worst team in a league above that is less regionalised?

In the event that say the East and West get the two automatic promotion spots to the Lowland League then why on earth shouldn't those spots go to clubs as low as 3rd place in the east or west?

[craigkillie]

The other issue with Lowland relegation (as things stand) is upping to two automatic spots doesn’t change anything for the EoS, who essentially have a promotion spot for champs. The second spot would go to the SoS winners who often aren’t too keen on the idea of moving up.
Bring in a West league, let the South step down a tier and suddenly two automatic spots makes much more sense.

The second spot wouldn't have to go to the SoS winners - the leagues could organise it any way they wanted.

Given the gulf in quality, it would be much more reasonable to have 1st in EoS automatically promoted and 2nd in EoS playing the SoS champions.

Alternatively, you could have 1st v 1st and 2nd v 2nd, with the winner of the 1st v 1st getting promoted automatically and the loser playing the winner of the 2nd v 2nd game.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

The second spot wouldn't have to go to the SoS winners - the leagues could organise it any way they wanted.

Given the gulf in quality, it would be much more reasonable to have 1st in EoS automatically promoted and 2nd in EoS playing the SoS champions.

Alternatively, you could have 1st v 1st and 2nd v 2nd, with the winner of the 1st v 1st getting promoted automatically and the loser playing the winner of the 2nd v 2nd game.

Do 3 up/3 down if everyone is licensed

1st places up automatically

2nd vs 2nd playoff for third spot

If any of the four are unlicensed just put the other 3 up. If less than 3 are licensed then the number of relegation slots is reduced.

[LongTimeLurker]

51 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Why should the 3rd best team in a league be considered better than the 2nd or 3rd worst team in a league above that is less regionalised?

It's something they do in England when the champion in a league below can't move up due to licensing related issues. You avoid the scenario of having a club in a particular league with no interest in moving up blocking the progress of others that do.

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The second spot wouldn't have to go to the SoS winners - the leagues could organise it any way they wanted.

Given the gulf in quality, it would be much more reasonable to have 1st in EoS automatically promoted and 2nd in EoS playing the SoS champions.

Alternatively, you could have 1st v 1st and 2nd v 2nd, with the winner of the 1st v 1st getting promoted automatically and the loser playing the winner of the 2nd v 2nd game.

Given the gulf in quality is why we have the attitudes of juniors thinking they should be on par with the english premiership 

[Ross.]

2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

If any of the four are unlicensed just put the other 3 up. If less than 3 are licensed then the number of relegation slots is reduced.

I'd put the next highest licensed side in there in place of the unlicensed side. Means teams have to develop on and off the park and prevents the possibility of a team just spending on the first 11 and to hell with the rest.

[edinabear]

This thread is absolute nonsense. Nothing new for about 50 pages. The same 3-4 posters giving each other dutch runners. it should be locked

[Dev]

1 hour ago, glensmad said:

The first scenario is what I have suggested could happen.

The threat of a breakaway West of Scotland League becoming reality could finally force the hand of the SJFA to go back to the SFA and say "can we now have Option W please ?"

Whether or not Option W remains on the table remains to be seen, given the reactions from the existing SFA leagues to the SJFA's email to its clubs after the PWG minute.

Well Option W seemed to be the best scenario all round and if the West is now willing to get on with that - then all well and good.

However, it would be tempered with the need to consider whether the top division would be , in effect, an amalgamation with the SoS so that SoS clubs would have the opportunity to join in at the Tier 6 level, with those who don't wish to staying in what would become a Tier 7 SoS. This would mean two Conferences for the top division of any new West league in 2020/21 it would allow all contenders for a 2021/22 Premier Division to get there on merit. SoS clubs which didn't make the cut would revert back to a Tier 7 SoS.

The other thing is though that the Juniors must be given a tight dead-line for sorting this out as there is a risk that this could be used as a delaying tactic by some.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Dev
update

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, edinabear said:

This thread is absolute nonsense. Nothing new for about 50 pages. The same 3-4 posters giving each other dutch runners. it should be locked

Don't read it then bud.

[Burnie_man]

26 minutes ago, glensmad said:

The first scenario is what I have suggested could happen.

The threat of a breakaway West of Scotland League becoming reality could finally force the hand of the SJFA to go back to the SFA and say "can we now have Option W please ?"

Whether or not Option W remains on the table remains to be seen, given the reactions from the existing SFA leagues to the SJFA's email to its clubs after the PWG minute.

Option W was rejected by LL and EoS, they have only backed an independent league in the west, free of SJFA control.

As you say, perhaps Mr.Robertson's comments didn't help, and TAJ's subsequent "minutes" and Talbot's statement won't have softened opinions on whether it should be run by the same people.

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Dev said:

In the event that say the East and West get the two automatic promotion spots to the Lowland League then why on earth shouldn't those spots go to clubs as low as 3rd place in the east or west?

Half of the EoS Premier is licenced. By this summer the current top 9 are likely to be licenced as will quite a few of the teams below. Both first placed teams in the EoS First Division conferences are licenced. So in 2020-21 you could easily see a minimum of 13/16 clubs licenced. 

Most of that has taken place in a two year timeframe. Licencing isn't this impossible dream for clubs playing at tier 6.

The majority of a tier 6 west & East leagues are going to be licenced going forward. There's no need to write it into the rules that a team that can't even win their league gets promoted.

[glensmad]

5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Option W was rejected by LL and EoS, they have only backed an independent league in the west, free of SJFA control.

As you say, perhaps Mr.Robertson's comments didn't help, and TAJ's subsequent "minutes" and Talbot's statement won't have softened opinions on whether it should be run by the same people.

So none of the four options given to the WRSJFA clubs to consider were ever going to be accepted ?

[LongTimeLurker]

7 minutes ago, glensmad said:

So none of the four options given to the WRSJFA clubs to consider were ever going to be accepted ?

That's why Petrie and Maxwell said there would be no more PWG meetings. The only rational way ahead is to remove one of the parties from the equation and that party is clearly the SJFA at this point. The conspiracy theory would be that Option Z was designed to get matters to reach a complete impasse so the SFA could eliminate Tom Johnston from the pyramid negotiations as quickly as possible, so the LL could deal with the west region or more likely its member clubs directly to get the west feeder up and running.

Edited February 6, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, glensmad said:

So none of the four options given to the WRSJFA clubs to consider were ever going to be accepted ?

Doesn't appear so (or at least opinion changed at some point) hence why the LL offered to help establish an independent west league.  Immaterial anyway as the SJFA didn't back options W either, or an independent west league.

The time for the WRJFA to come in was this season, didn't happen, and it now looks likely it will never happen unless they somehow convince members that leaving SJFA control and entering the Pyramid as an independent league is the way forward.

[Cameron Wilson]

12 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Don't read it then bud.

Fair point I don't agree with the poster you were responding to either. But bear in mind some of us check this thread because we aren't involved in the game and it's the only consistent source of news about the pyramid. 

Separately,and not referring to anyone in particular, but there's a lot of nonsense posted on this thread which serves no purpose other than making it harder to keep up with the genuine news and views.

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Fair point I don't agree with the poster you were responding to either. But bear in mind some of us check this thread because we aren't involved in the game and it's the only consistent source of news about the pyramid. 

Separately,and not referring to anyone in particular, but there's a lot of nonsense posted on this thread which serves no purpose other than making it harder to keep up with the genuine news and views.

The nonsense usually comes from one source as you witnessed yesterday.

But anyone who can't simply ignore a thread or skip over posts and instead think it's a good idea to complain on said thread and ask for it to be closed doesn't really get forums.

Anyway.........

[Arthurlie1981]

Option W was rejected by LL and EoS, they have only backed an independent league in the west, free of SJFA control.
As you say, perhaps Mr.Robertson's comments didn't help, and TAJ's subsequent "minutes" and Talbot's statement won't have softened opinions on whether it should be run by the same people.

Does this mean that the LL & EOS had changed their opinion on the west region joining?

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Does this mean that the LL & EOS had changed their opinion on the west region joining?

 

They want the west region to join as an independent league only, so yeah I guess it changed.

[craigkillie]

Given the gulf in quality is why we have the attitudes of juniors thinking they should be on par with the english premiership 

The only time there was a play-off it finished 10-0 on aggregate. There is clearly a massive gulf in quality which is something would expect even SoS fans would admit.