Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

12 minutes ago, BS7 said:

The EoS have taken a pragmatic view in the past and gone with conferences, rather than leagues, so that teams find their level quicker. I think - unlikely as it is at this point - that if there was another influx of junior teams into the eos then there would be conferences at tier 7. 

If the SJFA is 'bereft of life' come the end of the season, then it's entirely possible there will be an influx.

Edited February 2, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[LongTimeLurker]

12 minutes ago, BS7 said:

The EoS have taken a pragmatic view in the past and gone with conferences, rather than leagues, so that teams find their level quicker. I think - unlikely as it is at this point - that if there was another influx of junior teams into the eos then there would be conferences at tier 7. 

...and if Clydebank could be given deferred entry back in 2018, is there any reason that couldn't be done with a new set of west specific conferences for all teams interested in the WRSJFA with a view to a new tier 6 emerging the following season? Question is rhetorical because the answer is clearly no as far as I can see.

Edited February 2, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Dev]

"However, perhaps the simplest way for west clubs would be if, for the first season, one of the LL, EoS or SoS formed a separate division at Tier 6 which was restricted geographically to west clubs. The second season they would become the new WoS." 

A new temporary Tier 6 division would not require Licenced clubs. At Tier 6 this is not and is highly unlikely to ever be a requirement.

It would be up to the individual clubs in any new Tier 6 Division covering the west to decide whether or not to pursue club licencing. Just as in the EoS and the SoS. However, it wouldn't be a big surprise if clubs wishing to join were mainly those interested in becoming licenced sooner rather than later - but it wouldn't be essential !

If appropriate the constitutions of the senior league which sets out down this route could be amended. Not difficult.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Dev
up-date

[Vollyman]

I do believe Armadale's Secretary has posted he'd rather watch "pub fitbaw" than join the EoS, the bitterness is strong..........

The last 2 seasons Armadale have played pre season friendlies with EOS clubs. While their may be individual opinions there is no bitterness to make such a comment is a disgraceful

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

The last 2 seasons Armadale have played pre season friendlies with EOS clubs. While their may be individual opinions there is no bitterness to make such a comment is a disgraceful

Disgraceful? I think the comment itself kinda shows who's right here

[Dev]

8 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

The last 2 seasons Armadale have played pre season friendlies with EOS clubs. While their may be individual opinions there is no bitterness to make such a comment is a disgraceful

There's more in common than anything else. It may be painful for some ERJFA clubs to accept the change but they wouldn't be treated any different to existing EoS clubs if they made the move.

[Guest]

...and if Clydebank could be given deferred entry back in 2018, is there any reason that couldn't be done with a new set of west specific conferences for all teams interested in the WRSJFA with a view to a new tier 6 emerging the following season? Question is rhetorical because the answer is clearly no as far as I can see.

You are intent on muddying and blaming arent you.

 

The answer to the rhetorical question (that hasn't ever been asked anywhere, by anyone involved) is clearly no.....you couldn't make this up if you tried. [emoji1781]

 

Please take the few days away you promising after your over and out statements.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, G4Mac said:

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Basically. A single division LL2 just moves the issue of a geographic imbalance down from Tier 6 to Tier 7.

I agree. That is why I am for west clubs approaching the eosfl and/or LL, individually or collectively, to ask for their help in setting up a wosfl. I doubt the LL would do it without first knowing the interest is there.

For me this is why clubs apply to the SoSFL. Its not an individual club's responsibility to go chasing down other clubs for a new league as if they were confirming their RSVP list for a house party.

The SoSFL sits at Tier 6 ostensibly covers the West of Scotland because nobody else does and is open to application. Kilwinning and Clydebank announce they've put in applications as its their only certain route to accessing SFA Licencing, the Develpment League etc.

Just those two clubs on paper takes the SoSFL to 17 teams. That's a 32 game league season spread over 34 rounds due to the odd number. It also adds an extra round to some of the SoSFL cup competitions.

This is a problem for the LL Pyramid entirely, as it throws into question the ability of the SoSFL to provide a champion in time for the play-off. Its also a situation that would get worse as there are clubs that can be relegated from the Lowland League into SoSFL adding to fixture congestion.

The Lowland League, the SoSFL and EoSFL can then decide to form a WoSFL and how that will work within the LL Pyramid Playoff structure. Highlight the need for it to the SFA with the existing applications and then can go about promoting the WoSFL like they did the Lowland League.

Worse case scenario there's not enough interest in the WoSFL and the SoSFL have to make it work on their own like the EoSFL did with surplus applications.

[Burnie_man]

For me this is why clubs apply to the SoSFL. Its not an individual club's responsibility to go chasing down other clubs for a new league as if they were confirming their RSVP list for a house party.
The SoSFL sits at Tier 6 ostensibly covers the West of Scotland because nobody else does and is open to application. Kilwinning and Clydebank announce they've put in applications as its their only certain route to accessing SFA Licencing, the Develpment League etc.
Just those two clubs on paper takes the SoSFL to 17 teams. That's a 32 game league season spread over 34 rounds due to the odd number. It also adds an extra round to some of the SoSFL cup competitions.
This is a problem for the LL Pyramid entirely, as it throws into question the ability of the SoSFL to provide a champion in time for the play-off. Its also a situation that would get worse as there are clubs that can be relegated from the Lowland League into SoSFL adding to fixture congestion.
The Lowland League, the SoSFL and EoSFL can then decide to form a WoSFL and how that will work within the LL Pyramid Playoff structure. Highlight the need for it to the SFA with the existing applications and then can go about promoting the WoSFL like they did the Lowland League.
Worse case scenario there's not enough interest in the WoSFL and the SoSFL have to make it work on their own like the EoSFL did with surplus applications.

Do you get £1 every time you mention SoS [emoji23]

As has been said, it's a fallback option, the formation of a WoS league for next season really should be the priority, and it's not that difficult to achieve.

[Guest]

For me this is why clubs apply to the SoSFL. Its not an individual club's responsibility to go chasing down other clubs for a new league as if they were confirming their RSVP list for a house party.
The SoSFL sits at Tier 6 ostensibly covers the West of Scotland because nobody else does and is open to application. Kilwinning and Clydebank announce they've put in applications as its their only certain route to accessing SFA Licencing, the Develpment League etc.
Just those two clubs on paper takes the SoSFL to 17 teams. That's a 32 game league season spread over 34 rounds due to the odd number. It also adds an extra round to some of the SoSFL cup competitions.
This is a problem for the LL Pyramid entirely, as it throws into question the ability of the SoSFL to provide a champion in time for the play-off. Its also a situation that would get worse as there are clubs that can be relegated from the Lowland League into SoSFL adding to fixture congestion.
The Lowland League, the SoSFL and EoSFL can then decide to form a WoSFL and how that will work within the LL Pyramid Playoff structure. Highlight the need for it to the SFA with the existing applications and then can go about promoting the WoSFL like they did the Lowland League.
Worse case scenario there's not enough interest in the WoSFL and the SoSFL have to make it work on their own like the EoSFL did with surplus applications.

Moving to the sosfl quite honestly creates more issues further down the line. A wosfl is the answer, always has been. It isn't clubs chasing things down or associations, its lodging your interest with an association and they then create something for you to apply to.

[Marshmallo]

32 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Do you get £1 every time you mention SoS

As has been said, it's a fallback option, the formation of a WoS league for next season really should be the priority, and it's not that difficult to achieve.

Why? The SoS covers the Lowland area in the west of the country.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Do you get £1 every time you mention SoS

As has been said, it's a fallback option, the formation of a WoS league for next season really should be the priority, and it's not that difficult to achieve.

Yes, everyone keeps saying that forming the WoSFL would be a great thing.

So who's actually doing it?

The Lowland League? Well, maybe not no. They might just do Lowland League Two. But they support the idea. Supporting the idea did wonders in 2017-18.

The EoSFL? No, but they're supportive of the idea and will help make it a reality. Offer to help did wonders in 2017-18.

The SFA? No, they don't seem to care.

The clubs? Well there's maybe two right now. And apparently they've got to go around the other 61 West Region clubs, and gauge interest. Then go to the LL, or the EoSFL, or the SFA to even get it sanctioned as in the pyramid which can then be widely promoted.

So i'm a club rep going round contacting these clubs, probably through email. So its going to scattershot and all over the place whenever people even bother to repond. All while managing my potentially typical Monday-Friday 9-5 type work life, with family life and the club i'm presumably helping to run with what free time I have. You know we're having some pretty crap weather right now best make sure the pitch is playable, places to train secured, transport for match days if there's an away game. All that fun stuff.

Seems a great idea to dump it all one or two people rather than the organisations in the pyramid.

We already in theory the West Region clubs approve the idea of joining the pyramid. The WoSFL idea not so much. So what are the sort of follow up questions i'm I having to deal with from 61 other clubs while having zero authority to answer them

• Who's in the league?
• Are the SFA approving this?
• Do we get licencing access?
• What cups do we play in?
• What's the play-off going to be?
• Do we need floodlights?
• etc

Or,

You just apply to the league that you know gives you Tier 6 entry in a confirmed play-off structure. Access to SFA licencing. Access to the Development League. Access to the South Region Challenge Cup, Confirmed two routes to qualifying for the SFA Scottish Cup as long as qualifiers are a thing. And has a deadline of April 30th. That's a full 3 months for there to be a fallout over publicly leaving the SJFA to see others apply. Clubs who would be applying to a league that's almost at capacity already and requires a solution agreed amongst everyone in the pyramid to deal with a surplus of applications.

 

[Burnie_man]

Why? The SoS covers the Lowland area in the west of the country.

It's a largely amateur league covering Dumfries and Galloway, the clue is in the name. Yes they have taken in a few waifs and strays due to the lack of a WoS League, which highlights the need for a WoS League.

That should be, and is, the priority.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

It's a largely amateur league covering Dumfries and Galloway, the clue is in the name. Yes they have taken in a few waifs and strays due to the lack of a WoS League, which highlights the need for a WoS League.

That should be, and is, the priority.

That's just a name, no point getting hung up on that. If they rebranded it as the West of Scotland instead then nothing else would change.

[Burnie_man]

Yes, everyone keeps saying that forming the WoSFL would be a great thing.
So who's actually doing it?
The Lowland League? Well, maybe not no. They might just do Lowland League Two. But they support the idea. Supporting the idea did wonders in 2017-18.
The EoSFL? No, but they're supportive of the idea and will help make it a reality. Offer to help did wonders in 2017-18.
The SFA? No, they don't seem to care.
The clubs? Well there's maybe two right now. And apparently they've got to go around the other 61 West Region clubs, and gauge interest. Then go to the LL, or the EoSFL, or the SFA to even get it sanctioned as in the pyramid which can then be widely promoted.
So i'm a club rep going round contacting these clubs, probably through email. So its going to scattershot and all over the place whenever people even bother to repond. All while managing my potentially typical Monday-Friday 9-5 type work life, with family life and the club i'm presumably helping to run with what free time I have. You know we're having some pretty crap weather right now best make sure the pitch is playable, places to train secured, transport for match days if there's an away game. All that fun stuff.
Seems a great idea to dump it all one or two people rather than the organisations in the pyramid.
We already in theory the West Region clubs approve the idea of joining the pyramid. The WoSFL idea not so much. So what are the sort of follow up questions i'm I having to deal with from 61 other clubs while having zero authority to answer them

• Who's in the league?
• Are the SFA approving this?
• Do we get licencing access?
• What cups do we play in?
• What's the play-off going to be?
• Do we need floodlights?
• etc

Or,
You just apply to the league that you know gives you Tier 6 entry in a confirmed play-off structure. Access to SFA licencing. Access to the Development League. Access to the South Region Challenge Cup, Confirmed two routes to qualifying for the SFA Scottish Cup as long as qualifiers are a thing. And has a deadline of April 30th. That's a full 3 months for there to be a fallout over publicly leaving the SJFA to see others apply. Clubs who would be applying to a league that's almost at capacity already and requires a solution agreed amongst everyone in the pyramid to deal with a surplus of applications.
 

Goodness me chill! We're only a few days from the last PWG which set all this in motion.There's 6 months to get any new league (WoS or LL2) off the ground.

There's stuff happening in the background that neither you or I know the details of, but it's happening.

Will it involve the SoS? Highly unlikely, but it remains an option.

[Burnie_man]

That's just a name, no point getting hung up on that. If they rebranded it as the West of Scotland instead then nothing else would change.

I'm sure the SoS and its members would like to make that decision, if they were ever asked.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

46 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

For me this is why clubs apply to the SoSFL. Its not an individual club's responsibility to go chasing down other clubs for a new league as if they were confirming their RSVP list for a house party.
The SoSFL sits at Tier 6 ostensibly covers the West of Scotland because nobody else does and is open to application. Kilwinning and Clydebank announce they've put in applications as its their only certain route to accessing SFA Licencing, the Develpment League etc.
Just those two clubs on paper takes the SoSFL to 17 teams. That's a 32 game league season spread over 34 rounds due to the odd number. It also adds an extra round to some of the SoSFL cup competitions.
This is a problem for the LL Pyramid entirely, as it throws into question the ability of the SoSFL to provide a champion in time for the play-off. Its also a situation that would get worse as there are clubs that can be relegated from the Lowland League into SoSFL adding to fixture congestion.
The Lowland League, the SoSFL and EoSFL can then decide to form a WoSFL and how that will work within the LL Pyramid Playoff structure. Highlight the need for it to the SFA with the existing applications and then can go about promoting the WoSFL like they did the Lowland League.
Worse case scenario there's not enough interest in the WoSFL and the SoSFL have to make it work on their own like the EoSFL did with surplus applications.

Moving to the sosfl quite honestly creates more issues further down the line. A wosfl is the answer, always has been. It isn't clubs chasing things down or associations, its lodging your interest with an association and they then create something for you to apply to.

Yeah, right okay.

Applying to the SoSFL to trigger events that lead to a Tier 6 consisting of EoSFL, SoSFL and WoSFL. While securing clubs entry into the pyramid as a minimum = Creates more issues further down the line.

Creating a WoSFL that creates a Tier 6 consisting of EoSFL, SoSFL and WoSFL = No further issues down the line.

Don't quite see the difference there.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 hour ago, Vollyman said:

The last 2 seasons Armadale have played pre season friendlies with EOS clubs. While their may be individual opinions there is no bitterness to make such a comment is a disgraceful

If I was a fan of Armadale and found out my committee man making these accusations/comments, I would really want him out of the committee.
If I am a fan of a football club and decisions are being made out of bitterness, jealousy, personal issues then again, I wouldn't want this person making decisions for my club. Committee men and women need to remember that every decision they make affects the club, near future and long term so getting angry, making it personal or trying to get one back on someone doesn't help the matter.

 

I am in the West and personally all the issues that have came up here about the East juniors wanting to join level with the EOS etc.. I don't blame the EOS and other senior leagues for saying NO

Edited February 2, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread
spelling and added last sentence

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Goodness me chill! We're only a few days from the last PWG which set all this in motion.There's 6 months to get any new league (WoS or LL2) off the ground.

There's stuff happening in the background that neither you or I know the details of, but it's happening.

I've heard it all before now. So i'll believe it when I see it. How many times has someone popped up saying there's clubs having talks in the background around a breakaway? The ideas that went somewhat public in that they were picked up by social media or the press. The WoSFL backed by BSC Glasgow was December 2017. The offers of support to a WoSFL by the EoSFL was Spring 2018. The Lowland League Two Working Group was October 2018. None of them went anywhere.

[Burnie_man]

I've heard it all before now. So i'll believe it when I see it. How many times has someone popped up saying there's clubs having talks in the background around a breakaway? The ideas that went somewhat public in that they were picked up by social media or the press. The WoSFL backed by BSC Glasgow was December 2017. The offers of support to a WoSFL by the EoSFL was Spring 2018. The Lowland League Two Working Group was October 2018. None of them went anywhere.

We'll see what happens.