Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

That’s a really fair point. Maybe they just paid lip service and can say to the Board well we tried didn’t work out so thats that.

Pretty much, and they may end up with what they probably really want anyway, an independent WoS.

[LongTimeLurker]

59 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

It doesn’t matter if they are an organisation or not they can send things out on behalf of all the parties involved. They can all agreed tor communication to come out, and if they can’t, out the organisation who blocks it. It happens across many different bodies right across Scotland.

The more I find out about this so called PWG the more I can understand why we have ended up here.

The PWG was a committee of the SFA set up by the SFA Board that included representatives from the various stakeholders involved. It now appears to be effectively defunct because a viable consensus could not be reached on how to proceed, if the SJFA stick to an all in posture.

The secretary of the SJFA appears to be in a state of denial that the SFA can somehow impose the SJFA's preferred outcome, but if you read their constitution and those of the relevant leagues there is no obvious way for that to happen.

It was being suggested on here recently that the LL was about to set up a west league and clubs would soon have to make a decision on what to do next. That appears to now have shifted to clubs in the west having to take the initiative themselves and ask for a league, which is far from impossible but more challenging to do.

If nothing gets done on that in time for next season over the next few weeks that can still be sorted out at the next WRSJFA AGM by having the clubs instruct their officeholders to break away from the SJFA and pursue pyramid entry as a new WoS league. 

[kenny131]

Only the junior fa could turn something so simple as a pyrimad into an utter cluster fcuk.......time clubs just pushed them out the way and got on with it. Stay as is and die a slow death or move with the times 

[Boswelldriver]

But you will win them unless there is a complete and unprecedented form collapse. You have scored the most goals, conceded the least goals and have dropped the fewest points proportionally with a significant amount of games in hand. If you are saying Talbot are not fully in charge in the league you've started early.
As for why Lok are not in Talbot's position... a long story on our side, shorter on yours. Tucker has been Bot boss since November 2003. He took over a side that had finished just above the relegation zone in 02-03 and then not won any of their opening six league games in 03-04, and since then has built and tweaked his side over the years.
At Newlandsfield in the same time period, the managerial office has had somewhat of a revolving door, with each new broom sweeping large elements of the previous regime away.
Ronnie Lowrie
Rab Sneddon
Jim Sinnet
Harry Erwin (caretaker for 20+ games)
Rab Sneddon (again)
Willie Irvine
John Richardson
Steve Docherty
Tony McInally
Murdo MacKinnon
Within that list we have flirted with relegation at least once and gone down once too.
Our last real quality side (IMO) was  Rab Sneddon's in the mid 00s.

Well sorry, Pollok FC I stand corrected

Still don't think this argument is for this forum. [emoji106]

[cmontheloknow]

20 minutes ago, Boswelldriver said:

Well sorry, Pollok FC I stand corrected

Still don't think this argument is for this forum.

The point was made that the LL was of a questionable standard because Talbot had beaten Kelty (comfortably I would say, having watched it on tv) and last year's Highland champs. The relevant response to that (not made by me - I only seconded it) was that Talbot are far ahead of the competition in their own league too. Anyway, things are what they are and who knows what will happen next! 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Did any club boards or committees make any decisions etc today?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Auchinleck committee decided on five teas, three coffees and four bovrils.

Because its the way it’s always been?

[BTID]

3 minutes ago, gogsy said:

I think the coffee drinkers might have joined the committee recently. 

It’s because the tea is special. Nothing like the romance and tradition of Scottish blend. 

[andy25]

I suppose that was funny in your head?

Auchinleck committee decided on five teas, three coffees and four bovrils.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I think the coffee drinkers might have joined the committee recently. 

Them and their new fangled mocha-choca ways, it’ll never last!

[Shanner]

Getting really exited for the thousandth page of this thread.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Getting really exited for the thousandth page of this thread.

Dont worry we’re just waiting on the WOSL sub forum.

[Hillonearth]

8 minutes ago, BTID said:

It’s because the tea is special. Nothing like the romance and tradition of Scottish blend. 

Aye, but there's these new fangled pyramid things....

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Did any club boards or committees make any decisions etc today?

Make a decision on what exactly? What's there to make a decision on.

If Clydebank and Kilwinning had said they were leaving, that's one thing. But, all they said was they were considering their options.

• There's no WoSFL and nobody whether a club or league has announced their intention of starting one publicly.
• There's no Lowland League 2 or Lowland League 2 to apply to.
• The SoSFL gets dismissed as an option
• The President of the West Region is a Clydebank representative. So are you going to contact them to ask what they're doing?
• Are you writing to the SJFA? Who in their email update on the matter basically beg you to contact Rod Petrie to try and do something.

I'm sure plenty of committees gossiped about it though.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Make a decision on what exactly? What's there to make a decision on.
- whether they will also look at alternative options than the sjfa model.

If Clydebank and Kilwinning had said they were leaving, that's one thing. But, all they said was they were considering their options.
- I believe we will leave

• There's no WoSFL and nobody whether a club or league has announced their intention of starting one publicly.
• There's no Lowland League 2 or Lowland League 2 to apply to.
• The SoSFL gets dismissed as an option
• 
  -thus the point im asking if any committees discussed today and decided to look at a move to forming a wosl.
  
  The President of the West Region is a Clydebank representative. So are you going to contact them to ask what they're doing?
• 
  -why would I do that? I dont care what the west region does?
  
  Are you writing to the SJFA? Who in their email update on the matter basically beg you to contact Rod Petrie to try and do something
  
  -why would I write to the sjfa? What would that achieve? I doubt very much TJ would even respond to me and I wouldnt trust any response to be truthful.
  
  
  .

I'm sure plenty of committees gossiped about it though.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

 

The writing to the West Region and writng to the SJFA are things that the committees would consider, not you personally.

You say you believe Clydebank will leave. The other committees have seen that before recently. It was known Clydebank favoured the EoSFL over the SoSFL and then never left for the EoSFL. What weight does it carry that Clydebank are once again considering their options. When those options are Tier 6 SoSFL that has been declined and ignored since 2018 or potentially Tier 8 of the EoSFL and trips to the Borders.

You're talking about a group of people, who for the most part thought it was a good idea to do nothing for another year and slide into the pyramid alongside the Lowland League.

[Cornishman]

IF a handful of the westmost EoSFL clubs were persuadable and recruited for the purpose of kicking off this new WoSFL - say, those West of the Queensferries, then add in Ressies. from Stranny, BSCG & Caley Braves, plus some progressive SoSFL clubs, like Bonnyton and maybe a couple others (whom I can't name, but who are committing to licencing)  - then Kilwinning & Clydebank would automatically have a functional League being formed about them. There'd be at very least a dozen sides already making up the numbers, more if further WJFL clubs jump ship.

The point of this legerdemain is to guarantee the new League begins asap. The deal for the 'borrowed' EoSFL teams is that season-by-season, as more WJFL clubs join in, they'll get reabsorbed back into their natural East environment one-by-one. This new League could even allow say, 2-4 top EJFL clubs to be promoted/voted-in to sustain numbers. It would establish a 'soft-border' between WoSFL & EoSFL divisions, sufficient to perhaps somewhat equalise membership numbers between them.

Obviously, once the guarantee's put on the table, the WoSFL should prove a much more attractive proposition.

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Cornishman
DYAC!

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Cornishman said:

IF a handful of the westmost EoSFL clubs were persuadable and recruited for the purpose of kicking off this new WoSFL - say, those West of the Queensferries, then add in Ressies. from Stranny, BSCG & Caley Braves, plus some progressive SoSFL clubs, like Bonnyton and maybe a couple others (whom I can't name, but who are committing to licencing)  - then Kilwinning & Clydebank would automatically have a functional League being formed about them. There'd be at very least a dozen sides already making up the numbers, more if further WJFL clubs jump ship.

The point of this legerdemain is to guarantee the new League begins asap. The deal for the 'borrowed' EoSFL teams is that season-by-season, as more WJFL clubs join in, they'll get reabsorbed back into their natural East environment one-by-one. This new League could even allow say, 2-4 top EJFL clubs to be promoted/voted-in to sustain numbers. It would establish a 'soft-border' between WoSFL & EoSFL divisions, sufficient to perhaps somewhat equalised membership numbers between them.

Obviously, once the guarantee's put on the table, the WoSFL should prove a much more attractive proposition.

For me you have Clydebank and Kilwinning announce they are leaving the SJFA and applying to the SoSFL as it is their only obvious entry point into the SFA pyramid. That on paper sets the SoSFL to 17 clubs in 2020-21. Hope other clubs follow now they have something to actually apply to.

Say you get to just 4-5 clubs total. That has the SoSFL at 19 or 20 clubs in 2020-21. That's a 36 to 38 game league season or splitting into divisions. Have the applicant clubs and the SoSFL say the single division idea is unworkable due to fears of getting the league finished in time for any Lowland League play-off and the SoSFL do not desire splitting into divisions.

All parties have to come up for a new solution. Hence the creation of a WoSFL that can take the 4-5 existing applicants and would be a way for Bonnyton Thistle and Caledonian Braves reserves join as well without being seen as abandoning the SoSFL. Then put up a advert for applying to the WoSFL that should get enough clubs to fill it into a viable league.

[teamfinderscot]

I know south of Scotland league struggles for attendances and there’s only a select few teams who maybe can push to compete ( Musselburgh thumped a sos team in recent cup final) its a good opportunity for one of these west clubs to apply, potentially win the league if they have the right setup in place then have the shot at the play offs for the lowland league, as naturally eos champ plays sos champ for entry to LL. now many people may think this as a poor idea. Kelty did it with eos when eos wasn’t filled with all the ex juniors and were run close by LTHV but won as expected. They’re now sitting looking at promotion to SPFL If season goes as planned. Some fans may not like this idea, for clubs like Clydebank who are looking at options into the pyramid I don’t see why not Consider Sos, not being disrespectful at all to competition but a chance for those who want pyramid to achieve it. Whatever clubs decide etc. There’s still no doubt the west region prem is probably strongest and best supported semi pro league in country.

[Ginaro]

8 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

It won't get worse either and it does away with a historic divide that serves no purpose. Clubs in the East have been encouraged to improve facilities. I bring my daughter to games sometimes. It'a dreadful experience for her at some grounds. Lack of toilets, nowhere to sit down other than a cold concrete step etc... semi pro football is about getting punters through the gate to keep things afloat. Too many people assume that any step towards the pyramid automatically means increased cost and the prospect of Elgin away every 2nd tuesday. Despite the size of club, Pollok haven't won a league title since we had a Labour PM and it won't be happening this year either. Only clubs at the very top need worry about anything remotely like change but change is open to all who wish to go there. That opportunity doesn't exist just now. The pyramid has, on evidence widely available, been wilfully missold by the SJFA to keep their irrelevant (IMO - but I am not alone in  that view!) organisation alive for a few more seasons. Chickens will come home to roost.

This is an good point - @djorkiev says the fans are the most important thing in these discussion, well one of the biggest positives of the pyramid is access to club licensing - which means improved facilities and access to the Scottish Cup. We've seen the benefits for fans with the LL/EoS clubs going on cup runs and upgrading their grounds, and of course clubs gaining promotion.

Currently four of the West Premiership clubs don't have cover, which is a requirement for a licence, and also something all but one EOS Premier Division club has (Crossgates have fundraised to build cover). Unless clubs spend their money improving facilities they won't have to worry about playing any of the so-called unattractive clubs in the LL...

Not seen this posted here - TJ has commented on the PWG in this week's Loony Joons https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/junior-football-pyramid-talks-hit-21403790

Quote

[story begins with stuff we already know about Clydebank and Kilwinning's statements]

But SJFA chief Tom Johnston categorically denied the group - which comprises his association, SFA chief Ian Maxwell and president Rod Petrie, and representatives of the Lowland, Highland, South of Scotland and East of Scotland Leagues - had been dissolved.

“It has not been disbanded,” he said. “There is no immediate need or reason for the committee to meet at this point in time. But there will be more discussions required between ourselves and others.

“The proposals are back with the SFA to make a decision on discussions that were held the other day.

“There was a proposal from the Lowland League that there should be a west involvement in the pyramid because of a geographical imbalance.

“Both the Lowland and East of Scotland realise there’s a need for an involvement from the west.

“There are three or four options being considered. We were told by the SFA we would be in the pyramid by 20/21 but I don’t think that will happen now to be honest.”

All of which leaves every club in the juniors wondering exactly what they are playing for ahead of the new season.

Where does winning the league take you? What will the shape of the junior leagues be next season? When will the pyramid link-up finally take place?

Questions - and huge ones at that - are needing answered.