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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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1 hour ago, GNU_Linux said:
1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:
If, and its a very big if at this point, you get those clubs to announce for a WOSFL everyone starts asking questions.
That's potentially 3 Premiership sides and a a Championship side.
What's the premiership going to look like? The knock on effects of that. Clubs in relegation spots thinking they should stay up. Girvan presumably out spending money on floodlights for their SFA membership,wondering if they should move in case of getting locked out in future.

Personally can't see Girvan getting lights any time soon as the club have had back to back relegations & they are most likely in for another relegation dogfight this season too.

Reason for naming Girvan specifically as questioning joining a WoSFL is because of the licencing situation and their potential relegation.

They've obviously got a knowledgeable committee to have kept up with licencing this far, and know the pros and cons of being licenced in their position. I imagine they've been one of the licenced clubs blindsided by the floodlights inclusion and while it might be out of reach just now. Its something as a club they're working towards. So the question is do they want to risk losing that licence and SFA membership while sitting outside the pyramid? or the do they ensure they stay within the licencing structure? They survived for years in the SoS, does a league with those 4 clubs not sound more appealing than West League One or West League Two.

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I never said I knew who the teams would be, if there was ten teams. I'm sure some would pull their head out of the sand if it was announced that a WOS league was starting next season
There are too many committee quite happy to stay the way they are because quite simply they don't have the balls to push something like this through or stand up and be counted, too many are interested in wait and see.
If the SFA just said feck this, take charge and state we want applications, then I'm sure the ones who have stated publicly they want to join and then there would be a few who think, yeah, lets get a jump on the rest and join this season.
Who says what is right, who says allowing the guys who run the junior regions are the right people to run the new leagues/associations when they start up.
Who thinks people in the association committees are only thinking of themselves.
28 teams left a couple of years ago and, sorry if I'm wrong, MOST are happy that they did so and the rest in the East juniors are still operating.
can still happen here in the west. I state this as the amount of stuff said and power struggles, even from a few year back has held the growth of the pyramid in Scottish football.
I am strong pro for the pyramid, why because I believe it will be part of the help for improvement in Scottish football.

Officially If its Petershill, Cumnock, Clydebank and Kilwinning who state they want to it, which junior teams have officially stated that they have no interest in going to the pyramid


But it was different in the East. They all moved together to a long established league and that’s the difference. If they find a way in the West to get the leagues to join the pyramid then it’s not a problem but asking clubs to take a leap of faith to a new league from a financial perspective is why many clubs are in wait and see mode.

You can’t blame clubs for waiting to see what is happening in the west. When the PWG/SFA make the position known then clubs will have to make a decision until then they have made their position clear by choosing option z (and yes i know it’s not happening but they have chosen it anyway). If and when the PWG announce another stalemate then west clubs will have a decision to make on whether to go join a potential WoS.
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21 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 


But it was different in the East. They all moved together to a long established league and that’s the difference. If they find a way in the West to get the leagues to join the pyramid then it’s not a problem but asking clubs to take a leap of faith to a new league from a financial perspective is why many clubs are in wait and see mode.

You can’t blame clubs for waiting to see what is happening in the west. When the PWG/SFA make the position known then clubs will have to make a decision until then they have made their position clear by choosing option z (and yes i know it’s not happening but they have chosen it anyway). If and when the PWG announce another stalemate then west clubs will have a decision to make on whether to go join a potential WoS.

 

A league that was struggling though

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A league that was struggling though


It was and the move gave it and the former junior clubs a new lease of life and fair play to them but it is different in the west unless everyone goes to a new league at the same time.

I would prefer the SFA to put pressure on the SJFA by coming up with their own plan for the west that meets what they want. So far they have been passive and allowed disinformation to be spread by different parties and that has lead us to where we are by now.
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5 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 


It was and the move gave it and the former junior clubs a new lease of life and fair play to them but it is different in the west unless everyone goes to a new league at the same time.

I would prefer the SFA to put pressure on the SJFA by coming up with their own plan for the west that meets what they want. So far they have been passive and allowed disinformation to be spread by different parties and that has lead us to where we are by now.

 

West in at tier 6 is sensible option 

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It was and the move gave it and the former junior clubs a new lease of life and fair play to them but it is different in the west unless everyone goes to a new league at the same time.

 

I would prefer the SFA to put pressure on the SJFA by coming up with their own plan for the west that meets what they want. So far they have been passive and allowed disinformation to be spread by different parties and that has lead us to where we are by now.

I get where you are going with this and understand why you are saying it, however, this is the part that possibly frustrates me more than anything else, including those hell bent on spreading rumour and conjecture at lightning speed.

 

The west clubs don't have to wait for the pwg or sfa to tell them that option z won't work. This is part of the issue, the clubs and those running them could go and research this for themselves. Look beyond what the guys from the sjfa are telling you and look into the ins and outs of the move yourself. It isn't that difficult to decipher, I did it along with a couple of others when our club chose to move to the eos (one of the original 9 I might add)

 

We were able to put a list of pros and cons down and make our minds up all on our own. No help required from the sjfa. To wait on the sjfa to do what's right and help clubs move forward would be like waiting on the banks to catch a glimpse of nessie, in the dark, in the fog, with a burning candle for light, with sunglasses on, with..... Well you get the point.

 

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I get where you are going with this and understand why you are saying it, however, this is the part that possibly frustrates me more than anything else, including those hell bent on spreading rumour and conjecture at lightning speed. 
The west clubs don't have to wait for the pwg or sfa to tell them that option z won't work. This is part of the issue, the clubs and those running them could go and research this for themselves. Look beyond what the guys from the sjfa are telling you and look into the ins and outs of the move yourself. It isn't that difficult to decipher, I did it along with a couple of others when our club chose to move to the eos (one of the original 9 I might add)
 
We were able to put a list of pros and cons down and make our minds up all on our own. No help required from the sjfa. To wait on the sjfa to do what's right and help clubs move forward would be like waiting on the banks to catch a glimpse of nessie, in the dark, in the fog, with a burning candle for light, with sunglasses on, with..... Well you get the point.
 


Fair point. I think most clubs views would be why is option z there if it’s instantly dismissed. They are not going to take the word of people like you and me from pie and bovril over an official list from the PWG. I don’t believe option z will ever happen until the west is sorted and more clubs are licensed in the west,, and the comments made from others with better knowledge than me on here bare that out. If the SFA or someone from the PWG had attended to answer these questions then maybe that wouldn’t have been given the favoured status of the clubs but they didn’t and now we are back in purgatory of repeating last season.

Just want to add that well done to your club. You took the opportunity to move and seem to have revitalised it. Good luck to you for the future.
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Thanks very much. It has all been a bit of a whirlwind from where we were but everyone is pushing to see how far we can go. As usual there are obstacles to overcome but we keep pushing on.

For what it's worth, the paperwork for the four presented options that were 'up for discussion' lacked any great detail other than a few boxes and some writing that pretty much laid out in picture format how it may look. (hence me saying clubs can look into things themselves)

It wouldn't really give anyone any real insight into what they were picking, why they were picking it or any great detail as to what the drawbacks/positives for every association would be if you went with each of the options. In short it said little.

(those who think the sjfa are working from sfa support should read the para above.... I've seen the paperwork, it didn't detail any support, from anyone)

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After last years ‘progress’ (or lack of) every west club should know exactly what’s going to happen between now and next year...nothing! 
 

The clubs should be getting together but they won’t. The push will need to come from the LL.

 

edit: well done to the east clubs, you can see real progress both with their forward thinking ambitions to improve grounds and also their youth development pathway. Totally scunnered here at the lack of ambition or drive to create something similar here.

Edited by BTID
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12 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Fair point. I think most clubs views would be why is option z there if it’s instantly dismissed.

A basic understanding of what's gone on with the PWG meetings is that the EoSFL, SoSFL, West Region and East Region had already been voted on and rejected.

Yet that was included as an option.

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A basic understanding of what's gone on with the PWG meetings is that the EoSFL, SoSFL, West Region and East Region had already been voted on and rejected.

Yet that was included as an option.

It's quite bewildering how the same thing..... The very same thing that was rejected last year by both the LL and eos (ersjfa operating at tier 6 alongside the eos) wasn't flagged as a red herring straight away.

 

Sadly this will only delay west clubs further.

 

For clubs to require the sfa or LL present to answer questions on why option z wasn't workable is even more tragic. Surely they haven't all been duped by the same misleading, yet calculated, sjfa promotion of option z?

 

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10 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

It's quite bewildering how the same thing..... The very same thing that was rejected last year by both the LL and eos (ersjfa operating at tier 6 alongside the eos) wasn't flagged as a red herring straight away.

 

Sadly this will only delay west clubs further.

 

For clubs to require the sfa or LL present to answer questions on why option z wasn't workable is even more tragic. Surely they haven't all been duped by the same misleading, yet calculated, sjfa promotion of option z?

 

I thought it was a closed (Juniors) meeting and the SFA and LL weren't invited to attend.

Is my understanding wrong ?

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5 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

For clubs to require the sfa or LL present to answer questions on why option z wasn't workable is even more tragic. Surely they haven't all been duped by the same misleading, yet calculated, sjfa promotion of option z?

After listening to the last couple of Voice of the Juniors podcasts. It was clear none of them really knew what was going on.

They either had misinformation or questions about how things would work. Ticket pricing, competitions being lost, Craigroyston folding because of the EoS expansion rather than the increasing costs of running a football club in general, losing money. Newton Stewart getting mentioned.

With just West Region reps or SJFA reps there was never going to be anyone there to dispel those concerns.

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3 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 


But it was different in the East. They all moved together to a long established league and that’s the difference. If they find a way in the West to get the leagues to join the pyramid then it’s not a problem but asking clubs to take a leap of faith to a new league from a financial perspective is why many clubs are in wait and see mode.

You can’t blame clubs for waiting to see what is happening in the west. When the PWG/SFA make the position known then clubs will have to make a decision until then they have made their position clear by choosing option z (and yes i know it’s not happening but they have chosen it anyway). If and when the PWG announce another stalemate then west clubs will have a decision to make on whether to go join a potential WoS.

 

Agreeing 100% with what you say

if option Z doesn't go through as I suspect, as you say the teams will all look at their position again and think where do they go from here, 

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1 hour ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

Keep hearing about this potential WoS league on here, whilst I like the idea it's only on here that it's mentioned.

Who would run it? Have any clubs actually stated they would join it?

You won't find any clubs officially saying that they would join an entitiy which doesn't currently exist.

In the background, however, I suspect several clubs are watching with interest.

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15 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

West in at tier 6 is sensible option 

Don't think anyone is in disagreement about that. Even the EOS, SOS and LL were and are in favour of this going by most reports. It is the easier and most sensible thing to do with a quick fix and to be honest the rest would follow from the east and North but there's no doubt in my mind that the SJFA and district junior associations want all junior teams to go in at same time under their rules, if one goes then their Junior association bargaining chip goes as well or becomes weaker.  For Option Z, I don't think any of the senior associations will go for it and in my mind the LL West and LL East could have been adopted any time, later in the years.

BUT one thing, no matter if all junior teams join I think there should be a more progressive's relegation, promotions, meaning in the Scottish Division two, bottom placed is automatically relegated and the 2nd bottom plays a playoff spot to see who is in division 2 next season and as we scroll down the leagues, similar to the west region just now, 3 up 3 down. Maybe from the Lowland to EOS and WOS there could be 2 up 2 down but clubs need to see there's a chance of being promoted, not one at a time after a playoff, will take too long for clubs fans visions and enthusiasm would become stale, excitement needs to be brought back into football.

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