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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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4 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

 

Don't rule out the possibility of an independent West of Scotland Football League at tier 6 for next season.

If my recollection is correct, David Baxter (LL & EoSL Secretary) offered to organise a 'West League' and coordinate it for one season only, by which time its member clubs could run it themselves. This feels like it was a long time ago, so I'm not sure if this is correct ?

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Even the credible threat of a breakaway by six or seven top clubs, might scare the Blazers into asking for a Tier 6 position for next season. So there's no reason for that not to happen.

Wouldn't be surprised if there's discussions going on in private between several clubs.

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Somebody said £600k of cash private money was distributed to 10 SFL 2 clubs last season. 
That's a full size 3G.
Put one on each pitch every year and in a decade you have 10 more 3Gs.
So you get1000s more hours of football playing time all year round which is needed for kids to develop.
The Scotland captain was a product of that "wasted" League 2 money - who's to say that if Queen's Park weren't playing in a national league with so much exposure, he would have been picked up by Dundee United so quickly?

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1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

No but if we build more indoor astros, increase the number of qualified coaches and focus on kids development we might. 

Spend the money on these things instead of forcing dugshit national league football.

See Iceland.

I think you're exaggerating the money being spent on travel. Take Albion Rovers for example. If the 4th tier got regionalised the only really far journey they'd lose is Elgin, Cove already isn't that far and could end up being replaced by a club like Berwick who aren't much closer. These 2 away games against Elgin each season really won't make that much of a difference. And if you take Elgin themselves, yes, they'd lose a long trip to Annan, but they'd probably gain one to Wick and will end up in a much less attractive league.

Some people are trying to run before we can properly walk. Let's first finally get tier 6 and below sorted so the existing tier 5 leagues can become stronger. Any other ideas that are being floated around like automatic SPFL relegation, regionalisation at tier 4, splitting the LL and so on will only ever have a chance of happening  when tier 6 and below are properly in place on a nationwide level so the better clubs will find their way up and tier 5 gets strengthened. For example, regionalising tier 4 is something that has absolutely no chance of happening at present. If tier 5 gets much stronger (like with the strong west teams getting there), clubs in SPFL2 might start feeling threatened and might push for tier 4 to be expanded. Time will tell what will happen, but tier 6 needs to be the focus now, anything else will only be a long term thing.

Edited by Marten

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The setting up of a new league doesn’t threaten the juniors (just now) was the opinion of many clubs when the LL was set up and will be the same just now for a new WoSL.

I don’t understand the vailed threats to junior clubs on here from certain posters and then having a go at West clubs (like Clydebank) for not agreeing to what the EoS/LL want. It’s up to each club to decide what to do and nobody (including me) can tell them what to do.

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1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

No but if we build more indoor astros, increase the number of qualified coaches and focus on kids development we might. 

Spend the money on these things instead of forcing dugshit national league football.

See Iceland.

It's not the primary role of the clubs to produce players for the national team.

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1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

Ok, because there is a better way to do it: form a league between Aberdeen and Dundee areas now, affiliate to the pyramid (Like EoS is) so that clubs can get licensed, but with a view to ultimately growing it in parallel with the HFL, not necessarily as a feeder. 

Same as what is being proposed (as a potential long-term solution) for LLW and LLE.

Problem solved, travel nightmare averted.

There's absolutely no need for a separate tier 5 league covering Angus/Dundee. There could perhaps be a need for a tier 6 league. Tier 5 is the level below the national league.: clubs should expect to do some travelling if promoted to that league. Scotland is a small country, with a lot of clubs clustered in the Central Belt, mostly an hour or two away from each other. Just because there's a couple of clubs on the peripheries doesn't mean we should exclude them or pointlessly subdivide the country into more unequal regions, geographically and population-based.

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18 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

The setting up of a new league doesn’t threaten the juniors (just now) was the opinion of many clubs when the LL was set up and will be the same just now for a new WoSL.

I don’t understand the vailed threats to junior clubs on here from certain posters and then having a go at West clubs (like Clydebank) for not agreeing to what the EoS/LL want. It’s up to each club to decide what to do and nobody (including me) can tell them what to do.

What veiled threats?   A WoSFL would provide clubs in the west with a choice, stay Junior or move Senior.  As you say, each club would have to decide what's best for them if it comes to pass.

The Bankies seem to be in the midst of an identity crisis. On one hand they were threatened with eviction by TJ when they first talked about moving to Senior football, then one of their board subsequently assumes a senior position in Junior football despite this, then they back the SJFA (who previously threatened them) to see them right via "option Z". Meanwhile, Bankies fans I know personally want them as far away from TJ and the SJFA as possible.  Ultimately it's for them to work out what they want to do.

Edited by Burnie_man

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1 hour ago, craigkillie said:
1 hour ago, Che Dail said:
Somebody said £600k of cash private money was distributed to 10 SFL 2 clubs last season. 
That's a full size 3G.
Put one on each pitch every year and in a decade you have 10 more 3Gs.
So you get1000s more hours of football playing time all year round which is needed for kids to develop.

The Scotland captain was a product of that "wasted" League 2 money - who's to say that if Queen's Park weren't playing in a national league with so much exposure, he would have been picked up by Dundee United so quickly?

Andy Robertson is a product of the Celtic youth system - apparently released for being too small which is comical obviously.

Queens Park provided a stepping stone for his future career. Neither the club nor the league earned him the move to Dundee United, HE did it through his own self-belief, persistence, hard work and determination.

Queens Park provided a platform for him to play for a season, but it could just have easily been in a regional T4 instead of a national one, and for the same club - the competition and standard would be similar.

Bobby Linn played for Ballingry in East premier Juniors - way too good for that level and moved up. Simon Murray at Tayport to Arbroath, Dundee Utd and Hibs. 

The cream rises to the top.

 

Edited by Che Dail

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1 hour ago, ArabAuslander said:

You've got to love some of the hot takes coming from this thread, League Two being regionalised 😂,

What, regionalise T4 like they do in other countries but NEVER in Scotland cos football here is top class, important, and special?

 

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1 hour ago, Marten said:

Some people are trying to run before we can properly walk. Let's first finally get tier 6 and below sorted so the existing tier 5 leagues can become stronger. Any other ideas that are being floated around like automatic SPFL relegation, regionalisation at tier 4, splitting the LL and so on will only ever have a chance of happening  when tier 6 and below are properly in place on a nationwide level so the better clubs will find their way up and tier 5 gets strengthened. For example, regionalising tier 4 is something that has absolutely no chance of happening at present. If tier 5 gets much stronger (like with the strong west teams getting there), clubs in SPFL2 might start feeling threatened and might push for tier 4 to be expanded.

Time will tell what will happen, but tier 6 needs to be the focus now, anything else will only be a long term thing.

Agree with all of this - fair enough - you're right 👍

 

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52 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

There's absolutely no need for a separate tier 5 league covering Angus/Dundee. There could perhaps be a need for a tier 6 league. Tier 5 is the level below the national league.: clubs should expect to do some travelling if promoted to that league. Scotland is a small country, with a lot of clubs clustered in the Central Belt, mostly an hour or two away from each other. Just because there's a couple of clubs on the peripheries doesn't mean we should exclude them or pointlessly subdivide the country into more unequal regions, geographically and population-based.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree - you're entitled to an opinion and so am I. 

The point has been made that it is academic just now anyway because there are other priorities to be focussed on for next season.

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6 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

Would there be anything to stop the SoSFL rebranding as the WoSFL and starting taking applicants?

This is exactly what should be happening.

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Bobby Linn played for Ballingry in East premier Juniors - way too good for that level and moved up. Simon Murray at Tayport to Arbroath, Dundee Utd and Hibs. 
The cream rises to the top.
 

Linn was a well known entity in the lower leagues when he signed for ballingry, he didn’t sign for them cos he was lacking offers at a higher level, but as a result of having a big fat cheque waved in his face. When that batshit mental spending came crumbling down he returned to the level he was always meant to be playing at.

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What veiled threats?   A WoSFL would provide clubs in the west with a choice, stay Junior or move Senior.  As you say, each club would have to decide what's best for them if it comes to pass.
The Bankies seem to be in the midst of an identity crisis. On one hand they were threatened with eviction by TJ when they first talked about moving to Senior football, then one of their board subsequently assumes a senior position in Junior football despite this, then they back the SJFA (who previously threatened them) to see them right via "option Z". Meanwhile, Bankies fans I know personally want them as far away from TJ and the SJFA as possible.  Ultimately it's for them to work out what they want to do.

That narrative makes it sound like Bankies were bought off by a position on the sjfa board which is implicitly incorrect, Matt was in place prior to that vote taking place and has never acted in anything other than our clubs best interests in anything he’s done. I agree with your views on the pyramid in general but youre not being entirely accurate in terms of Clydebank. There’s no identity crisis, we were burned before for being all out breakaway and we cant do that again. Its a reasonable position.

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17 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

Would there be anything to stop the SoSFL rebranding as the WoSFL and starting taking applicants?

That could work, but my understanding is that the SoS may not be on the same page as the EoS (and if Burnie_man's info is accurate the LL) on these issues and are probably happy keeping a D&G focus. They haven't objected to WRSJFA entry in the way that the EoS have to ERSJFA entry.

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3 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


That narrative makes it sound like Bankies were bought off by a position on the sjfa board which is implicitly incorrect, Matt was in place prior to that vote taking place and has never acted in anything other than our clubs best interests in anything he’s done. I agree with your views on the pyramid in general but youre not being entirely accurate in terms of Clydebank. There’s no identity crisis, we were burned before for being all out breakaway and we cant do that again. Its a reasonable position.

It's just my observations based on views from several Bankies fans I know and posts on here.   There is undoubtedly a split in opinion and there's a significant portion of your support who want to get away from Junior football and into Senior asap as per the vote taken some time ago, which has yet to be acted upon which for them is very frustrating.   A new, independent WoSFL would provide exactly what was voted for.  

However, it's for Clydebank fans to decide, and this isn't solely about Clydebank.

Do you think a new WoSFL would attract the minimum 12 clubs?

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