Junior football, what is the future?

[Jacksgranda]

On 09/06/2017 at 15:14, Burnie_man said:

Just throwing this out there for discussion.

As expected we've seen Kelty jump ship, maybe one or two will follow in the next couple of seasons but I can’t see a trickle becoming a flood for various reasons, particularly in the West.

However, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a significant percentage of clubs out there who would like to see a proper pyramid structure in place which wholly involves Junior clubs, and for these clubs to work towards gaining an SFA Licence and work their way up that structure, participating in the Scottish Cup.

Currently, the SJFA don’t appear willing to engage in serious discussions with the SFA, or even open a debate internally with members on this issue.

So what do Junior clubs do next? what is the long-term future of Junior football?  Do nothing and hope that we only lose a handful of clubs and carry on unchanged, or begin an honest and open discussion between member clubs about how to integrate with the pyramid.

These are serious questions that now need asked but I doubt we’ll hear much about it at the upcoming AGM, it’ll be more head in the sand stuff and no leadership.

30 months and 938 pages later, things don't seem to have changed much.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Jacksgranda said:

30 months and 938 pages later, things don't seem to have changed much.

Tragic isn't it.

[LongTimeLurker]

...except in reality all three regions of the SJFA have now backed the "Petrie brain fart".

Edited January 20, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Jack Burton]

Do you think it likely that SPFL2 clubs would agree to a LL split and therefore 3 feeders? 

No, I don't think they will. They only wanted one league at tier 5 never mind 3. Most clubs also don't want to play in such a regionalised league.

There is whole host of issues with splitting the LL. Get the west in at tier 6 then review if a split is needed at LL in another 5/10 years.

1 promotion play off place between 3 leagues is really insufficient. You would need to win your league, win the LL play off, win the play off against HL champions then win the play off against club 42 [emoji23]

There's a real lack of licensed clubs in the west. The league places could be decided on license rather than football merit. Is it really feasible for all the west juniors to be licensed by 2021?

[FairWeatherFan]

45 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Agree that's what the EoS will no doubt go far, but if everybody else including the north and east regions are OK with Option Z there is probably no need for a complete consensus for it to happen. If there are fully separate LL East and LL West leagues launching the playoff rules for the LL are no longer applicable because the LL doesn't exist any more at that point. The EoS and ERSJFA can then be offered the chance to decide whether they want to be feeders to the new LL East. Option Z is a way to hit the reset button and start again in other words. 

Love to live in your world where you can just rip up written agreements and start again.

The credit cards are under Robert. My name's now Bob. Its got nothing to do with me mate.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

...Is it really feasible for all the west juniors to be licensed by 2021?

The experience in the east suggests it's not mission impossible. Check out how quickly floodlights sprung up in Bonnyrigg and Cardenden earlier this year.

[Che Dail]

14 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Not a chance. Even aside from the promotion places argument, where assuming it remains at one playoff spot at first it’ll be harder to get back up with no less risk of relegation in the first place, clubs want to play nationally rather than regionally.* Dropping into an even smaller region than they would currently surely appeals to none of them.

*This does make Brechin and other Angus clubs complaining about the Highland League because of the travel rather silly.

Even if it could be shown that they would be better off in a future LLW or LLE, clubs would still vote against it. 

But we're no further forward as a nation in terms of talent.  The  pro league structure needs to be streamlined to ensure the top leagues are best v best, and it is attractive for clubs to aspire to. But at the moment it is not - there is a bottleneck and some clubs in SFL 2 are in survival mode at best: unsustainable.

Get the Junior clubs in now, and in time delete SFL 2, only my opinion.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

That money is being unnecessarily wasted - very little value added - cash disappearing for nothing, lost to the game.

Yip. Paying players and coaches as much money as possible to be as close to professional as possible. Horrible. Let's make these leagues amateur.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Marten said:

According to Wikipedia (I know...), Huntly have been HFL from the start. Formed in 1928 and immediately accepted to the Highland League.

Correct.

By comparison, Wick Academy and Fort William joined the HFL directly from the NCL, and would want to return there if relegated in the future. Likewise Brora Rangers, Clachnacuddin, and probably Nairn County,  would join the NCL, if it was a recognised HFL pyramid feeder league, at that time. 

Lewis & Harris FC  (+ Shetland FC occasionally)  participate in some of the NCL cup competitions, weather permitting, but unless there was external funding for air flights, they would not be able to join the league even if/when it is granted tier 6  pyramid status, alongside the Juniors league.

. .  

[Burnie_man]

15 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...except in reality all three regions of the SJFA have now backed the "Petrie brain fart".

Meaningless really.

[Che Dail]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Yip. Paying players and coaches as much money as possible to be as close to professional as possible. Horrible. Let's make these leagues amateur.

My point is you would be paying them to sit on a bus instead of playing football. That is a waste. 

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

My point is you would be paying them to sit on a bus instead of playing football. That is a waste. 

Pretty sure they play a game of football in the middle of all the bus rides.

[Che Dail]

Just now, FairWeatherFan said:

Pretty sure they play a game of football in the middle of all the bus rides.

Ahhh, you're being sarcastic? That's really funny.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

Ahhh, you're being sarcastic? That's really funny.

Not really. I'm saying for a certain number of players at this level playing football could be their job. Not their only one for the vast majority, but a very healthy payday.

You see them spending a couple of hours on a bus as a waste. I see it as getting paid.

[Jeek]

I'm beginning to miss Isa

[Vollyman]

My opinion is that if the ERJFA are required to form a 16 team super League to gain access to tier 6 which would result in teams from West Lothian travelling to Carnoustie,Forfar and Dundee would be a bad decision. This would not be a viable option and could lead to a further exodus of clubs from the region.

 

[Ray Patterson]

Just now, Vollyman said:

My opinion is that if the ERJFA are required to form a 16 team super League to gain access to tier 6 which would result in teams from West Lothian travelling to Carnoustie,Forfar and Dundee would a bad decision. This would not be viable option

Its becoming increasingly clear that East (South) Juniors should just all apply to the EOS, and ask for Tier 7 conferences. There's no point in sticking it out as is, as you're doing is pushing yourself further down the pyramid when you eventually join.

[Che Dail]

22 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Not really. I'm saying for a certain number of players at this level playing football could be their job. Not their only one for the vast majority, but a very healthy payday.

You see them spending a couple of hours on a bus as a waste. I see it as getting paid.

There are a few ways to look at it but from a players perspective: You have an offer from Auchinleck and another from Albion Rovers for exactly the same pay or a marginal gain.  But at Talbot you have a good chance of silverware, probably playing with better players, and Saturday mornings to yourself.  

Or alternatively the prospect of trips to Brechin, Cove and Elgin for the whole day. Time away from family and lost shifts at work - where is the advantage?  It's just not that good a league to have folk travelling for hours  when there are so many more productive ways to spend time and money.  

There are plenty successful Junior clubs who do not see SPL2 as an attractive offering, why is that if the rewards are so great?  See Cowdenbeath accounts on Companies House for a possible reason why - their liabilities exceed their assets by £250k - it's only sustainable for as long as individuals are willing to chuck cash at it.   And Berwick's woes are well publicised online - it just doesn't add up.

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Che Dail

[AlanCamelonfan]

5 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

My opinion is that if the ERJFA are required to form a 16 team super League to gain access to tier 6 which would result in teams from West Lothian travelling to Carnoustie,Forfar and Dundee would be a bad decision. This would not be a viable option and could lead to a further exodus of clubs from the region.

 

Better get the application in now

[Che Dail]

7 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

My opinion is that if the ERJFA are required to form a 16 team super League to gain access to tier 6 which would result in teams from West Lothian travelling to Carnoustie,Forfar and Dundee would be a bad decision. This would not be a viable option and could lead to a further exodus of clubs from the region.

 

Joining the EoS is a viable option and offers the best possible outcome for Armadale.  Speak to Broxburn and Blackburn to find out how they're feeling about the move.