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Junior football, what is the future?

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25 minutes ago, gogsy said:

"International businessman" (from Grangemouth) ;)

Think he's from Firs Street in Falkirk originally which was where the turnstiles used to be for the old Shire park. There appears to be money available for next season again as they are extending the contracts on their best players  now that promotion is looking like an extreme long shot this season.

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by the way does BSC stand  for bloody stupid c***s

That’s up there with the worst patter I’ve read in my life.

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Are any Junior clubs looking at applying for a SFA License this season?

Most in the West had the facilities, although the new(ish) floodlight stipulation will trip up most of those. Of those in the West Premier Division, only Clydebank, Cumnock, Benburb. Rutherglen and poss. Talbot have the facilities in place to apply.

 

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The new floodlight stipulation was a well thought out ruse from the SFA to keep numbers of Junior teams applying to a minimum?

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17 minutes ago, TFW said:

The new floodlight stipulation was a well thought out ruse from the SFA to keep numbers of Junior teams applying to a minimum?

Not sure why you are singling out junior clubs, the new floodlight stipulation would have been a ruse to keep the numbers of any teams applying to a minimum. 

Edited by gogsy

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23 minutes ago, TFW said:

The new floodlight stipulation was a well thought out ruse from the SFA to keep numbers of Junior teams applying to a minimum?

Floodlights had been on the cards for a while. Talked about ever since licensing became a thing.  The SPFL need them and the Highland League already had floodlights as a separate requirement. Once Lowland League clubs were in a positiion to have them it would have become a requirement. The SFA doesn't really look beyond the HL/LL.

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Are any Junior clubs looking at applying for a SFA License this season?

Most in the West had the facilities, although the new(ish) floodlight stipulation will trip up most of those. Of those in the West Premier Division, only Clydebank, Cumnock, Benburb. Rutherglen and poss. Talbot have the facilities in place to apply.
 
Clubs can only apply for a licence if they play in the pyramid. Until the sjfa are in the pyramid clubs can only work towards meeting the criteria, but won't be able to apply officially. This means sjfa clubs won't get licensed until summer 2021 at the earliest, depending on if they enter the pyramid for next season (2020/2021).

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58 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

Are any Junior clubs looking at applying for a SFA License this season?

Cumnock and Petershill put in applications. It is unclear whether they were forwarded to the licensing committee by the SFA board.

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Floodlights had been on the cards for a while. Talked about ever since licensing became a thing.  The SPFL need them and the Highland League already had floodlights as a separate requirement. Once Lowland League clubs were in a positiion to have them it would have become a requirement. The SFA doesn't really look beyond the HL/LL.

 

The floodlight requirement was always going to happen, the way it was implemented was poor tho.

 

Really wish SFA would bring in lower levels of licensing for tier 6 /7(and lower if more teams join). A basic standard for every tier regardless of region and access to scottish cup(even if no prize money to certain licence grades ) would be absolutely fantastic.

 

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It certainly would have made sense parsforlife, but then again when has the SFA and non league football ever been about making sense?

The floodlighting issue, could and should have been handled much better, but it starts to imitate the ridiculous ground grading of the English Pyramid system whereby you have to have a certain number of seats, covered accommodation etc before you can even move up a league. The game is full of clubs who overstretched themselves to meet this criteria and went belly up. It won't be long before that happens in Scotland too.

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4 hours ago, parsforlife said:


greads
The floodlight requirement was always going to happen, the way it was implemented was poor tho.

Really wish SFA would bring in lower levels of licensing for tier 6 /7(and lower is more teams join). A basic standard for every tier regardless of region and access to scottish cup(even if no prize money to certain licence grades ) would be absolutely fantastic.

The floodlights issue was a sham and poorly communicated. The EoS gave warning at their October meeting to get licensing applications in now due to the expected change. They obviously didn't realise it would come so soon or be handled in the manner that it was.

I think we're at the point now where it's the leagues that have to worry about additional criteria, rather than the SFA. And where you enter the Scottish Cup is now largely dictated by what league you're in, rather than licensing as well.

When you consider that there was a lot of criticism over the licensing rules being set too low to allow for existing members. We're probably at the point now for Entry level that the standards are what you would expect for a club run on a semi-proffesional rather than amateur basis. Clubs able to host midweek games to allow for season long fixture lists, access for disabled fans, cover from the rain, warm food/drink and toilets. The only additional thing would be seating.

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32 minutes ago, TFW said:

It certainly would have made sense parsforlife, but then again when has the SFA and non league football ever been about making sense?

The floodlighting issue, could and should have been handled much better, but it starts to imitate the ridiculous ground grading of the English Pyramid system whereby you have to have a certain number of seats, covered accommodation etc before you can even move up a league. The game is full of clubs who overstretched themselves to meet this criteria and went belly up. It won't be long before that happens in Scotland too.

I think the general principle is correct, but I agree with this.

If it was a simple grading system: (with a three year grace period) 

Bronze (for Tier 3-4): Floodlights, Cover for 500 and 250 seats.
Professional Entry (Tier 5): Floodlights, Cover for 250 and 100 seats
Non-Professional Plus (Tier 6-7*): Floodlights, Cover for 100
Non-Professional Entry (Tier 8 and below): Cover for 100.

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starts to imitate the ridiculous ground grading of the English Pyramid system whereby you have to have a certain number of seats, covered accommodation etc before you can even move up a league. The game is full of clubs who overstretched themselves to meet this criteria and went belly up. It won't be long before that happens in Scotland too.


I like how extensive the English grading is, even if there’s some odd criteria in places. (East fife/Dumbarton wouldn’t be allowed beyond a very low level for example). The point of licensing/grading is that clubs need to improve facilities as they go up leagues, which does mean from time to time denying promotion unless a club brings itself up to standard.

It’s up to clubs themselves to make sure they don’t overreach, the same as they need to make sure they manage playing budgets.

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1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

I like how extensive the English grading is, even if there’s some odd criteria in places. (East fife/Dumbarton wouldn’t be allowed beyond a very low level for example). The point of licensing/grading is that clubs need to improve facilities as they go up leagues, which does mean from time to time denying promotion unless a club brings itself up to standard.

It’s up to clubs themselves to make sure they don’t overreach, the same as they need to make sure they manage playing budgets.

 

What is the grant system like in England?  The levels of funding from the Scottish Football Partnership has been reduced and is really at pitiful levels compared to financing required for lights, cover, seats etc.

Bigger clubs may be able to raise the finance for stuff like that through sponsors, benefactors and trimming playing budgets, but smaller to mid range clubs don't always have that option. 

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What is the grant system like in England?. 

 

Comparatively fucking massive I think. Premier league puts £100 million in a season.(tho not all for grants etc) it’s a drop in the ocean for them but in comparison to up hear it’s significant.

 

I’m not suggesting we copy the requirements directly from them, more the process. Even simple things throughout the documentation it reminds clubs where standards for higher leagues differ and to consider that when investing. (The standard is x, but in the league above it’s y, if you don’t have x then you might be better waiting and going for y than getting x and then trying for y)

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Comparatively fucking massive I think. Premier league puts £100 million in a season.(tho not all for grants etc) it’s a drop in the ocean for them but in comparison to up hear it’s significant.

I’m not suggesting we copy the requirements directly from them, more the process. Even simple things throughout the documentation it reminds clubs where standards for higher leagues differ and to consider that when investing. (The standard is x, but in the league above it’s y, if you don’t have x then you might be better waiting and going for y than getting x and then trying for y)

 

Well, the grant money available from the SFP was cut from £10k to £2.5k for EoS level clubs, at roughly the same time the floodlight requirement was rolled out........

Not sure how much the SFA put in, or even if the SPFL put in anything at all.

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On 19/12/2019 at 15:58, glensmad said:

Are you suggesting a second jexit referendum ? :rolleyes:

No...... but the result of the junior 'referendum' on the 4 options, will be interesting when published. The problem comes, if there is a split response, with no majority view.

If this means further pyramid entry delay, there may be a number of West clubs, who may favour a separate West 'Senior' League, created in time for 2020/21 (theoretically possible, but a very tight timescale).  A "Kelty of the West" could be a standard bearer, but which club(s) might it be, and is David Baxter's offer last year (ie the temporary establishment of a breakaway league), still on the table ?   

 

On 19/12/2019 at 19:45, FairWeatherFan said:

answer the post :)

63 West Region clubs compared to 70 clubs in the other regions. 32 in the North and 38 in the East. So the West Region could be outvoted if there was a SJFA wide vote.

If that helps anyone thinking it's a maths quiz.

 Unlikely scenario.

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6 hours ago, mrman2011 said:

MR Man's plan

 

- Abolish Junior Football

That is all, its old and very pointless for 2020. 

Thankfully that will be up to the clubs to decide not zoomers on an internet forum

Edited by santheman

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