Junior football, what is the future?

[newcastle broon]

27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Option Z was one of the four options the SFA provided for discussion ahead of the next PWG meeting and wasn't something new. It might be workable if splitting the LL takes away the ability of the EoS to veto changes to the LL playoff format. We don't have long to wait to find out if that's the end game where the Hampden based blazers of the SFA and SJFA are concerned.

You keep banging the drum for a split but why should the LL split when they have a difficult job as it is trying to get into the next level up. 

Canny see them changing their format anytime soon unless the leagues above open up. 

 

 

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

9 hours ago, 8MileBU said:

With all due respect to some of the clubs left in the ERSJFA, a lot of what they’re up against would be given a run for their money by a good amateur side. The idea they should be regarded as the same level or in a parallel league to the EOS is farcical.

The problem is that they are also trying to get the SoS league as a feeder to a new tier 5 LL west and the North Caledonian league as a feeder to the Highland League and those leagues are even weaker than the east region is now.

From an SFA standpoint it's probably mainly about getting the pyramid completed as quickly as possible at this point, so they don't really care if that means there are two parallel tier 6 leagues of greatly differing playing standards in West Lothian just as long as the PWG process finally reaches a resolution.

Edited January 18, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[AsimButtHitsASix]

50 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The problem is that they are also trying to get the SoS league as a feeder to a new tier 5 LL west and the North Caledonian league as a feeder to the Highland League and those leagues are even weaker than the east region is now.

The top end of both leagues aren't a huge jump from the bottom ends of the leagues above and both cover areas of the country that would fit directly under the tiers that already exist. What's the issue here? 

[LongTimeLurker]

Not sure that an overlap in quality with Fort William or Vale of Leithen is something to boast about. Beyond that the issue is that arguments revolving around the quality of the east region won't fly given what would be happening beneath the other two tier 5 feeders if Option Z gets implemented. The issue of overlap doesn't necessarily work either as an argument against given the presence of Kello Rovers in the SoS catchment and Bonnyton in the west region one and the way that the NCL and north region have both had teams in Inverness in recent years. The pyramid process isn't being driven by logic but by the path of least resistance.

Edited January 18, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Marshmallo]

LongTimeLurker is the latest onto the payroll after Superbigal last season. Regular posters on pyramid threads who became junior shills purposely muddying the water almost overnight.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Marshmallo

[LongTimeLurker]

Another one who doesn't seem to be able to grasp that my posts are all about trying to understand what is happening rather than supporting it or blaming any league or association for the posture they hold.

Edited January 18, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[lowenan]

Put the west juniors in at tier 6, give the teams the chance to get licensed, and nothing else needs to change in the next few seasons. 

[LongTimeLurker]

Although that's logical enough the SJFA's mandate from their members is to get all three junior regions in and the SFA board appear to want the PWG process to facilitate that.

Edited January 18, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not sure that an overlap in quality with Fort William or Vale of Leithen is something to boast about. Beyond that the issue is that arguments revolving around the quality of the east region won't fly given what would be happening beneath the other two tier 5 feeders if Option Z gets implemented. The issue of overlap doesn't necessarily work either as an argument against given the presence of Kello Rovers in the SoS catchment and Bonnyton in the west region one and the way that the NCL and north region have both had teams in Inverness in recent years. The pyramid process isn't being driven by logic but by the path of least resistance.

Syngenta apply for the EoS, get rejected over their ground plans. Scramble and apply to the East Region where they're pretty much rushed in with no real plan in place with what they're doing for a ground long term.

Club gets relegated to Tier 8 of the EoS, and decides feck it we'll apply to the East Region and get back in at Tier 7. Within a year they can be at Tier 6. You'll notice not only the mass exodus from the East Region in 2018, but you've got Kelty the year before that. Glenrothes and Kinnoull in their late dash across in 2019. Easthouses and Craigroyston moving to the Juniors when they thought that was better long term. So since the pyramid there has been around 30 moves between the leagues. That's a lot of precendent to suggest it won't actually stop if a club sees an advantage to be played between the two.

Now you can try and argue the same would be true of the West Region and the SoSFL. Except the only memorable example of that is Girvan 15 years ago. With the significant geographic difference in memberships of the those leagues it puts clubs off and the SoSFL is only a single division which would limit clubs moving there.

[superbigal]

LongTimeLurker is the latest onto the payroll after Superbigal last season. Regular posters on pyramid threads who became junior shills purposely muddying the water almost overnight.

Aye not.
I posted the sfa lowland pyramid and eos leaked meeting minutes.
No one can dispute the pyramid minutes were anything less than having the juniors "hold all the aces".
My criticism with the eos was the apparent misunderstanding of how this would end (tayside league) and not "waking up" and objecting earlier. The criticism of the lowland league was they took absolutely no formal position till the final kick in the balls (correctly) to the juniors.
Burnieman (correctly) said the proposals were all bollocks from day one while Locheeboy was adamant they were a done deal.
Once again my beef was it took officialdom the whole season to boot it into touch.

I want personally either.
1 A full eos merger with ersjfa and hl/ll boundary moved.
I suggested this before the eos premier 16 were established suggesting the juniors champs got the place 16 that was always available. No idea now how to get the bigger teams like broughty placed.

2 eos merger with ersjfa with fife and south.
Tayside league established possibly with jeanfield and kinnoull (tayport , newburgh, standrews at a stretch) . Boundary changing to make this lowland.
Possible boundary established and agreed between eos and tayside if tayport and st Andrew's etc moved.

[Salvo Montalbano]

Aye not.

I posted the sfa lowland pyramid and eos leaked meeting minutes.

No one can dispute the pyramid minutes were anything less than having the juniors "hold all the aces".

My criticism with the eos was the apparent misunderstanding of how this would end (tayside league) and not "waking up" and objecting earlier. The criticism of the lowland league was they took absolutely no formal position till the final kick in the balls (correctly) to the juniors.

Burnieman (correctly) said the proposals were all bollocks from day one while Locheeboy was adamant they were a done deal.

Once again my beef was it took officialdom the whole season to boot it into touch.

 

I want personally either.

1 A full eos merger with ersjfa and hl/ll boundary moved.

I suggested this before the eos premier 16 were established suggesting the juniors champs got the place 16 that was always available. No idea now how to get the bigger teams like broughty placed.

 

2 eos merger with ersjfa with fife and south.

Tayside league established possibly with jeanfield and kinnoull (tayport , newburgh, standrews at a stretch) . Boundary changing to make this lowland.

Possible boundary established and agreed between eos and tayside if tayport and st Andrew's etc moved.

 

I appreciate your honesty in that post, as there were times when it appeared however correctly or erroneously that you were swallowing TJs lines. One thing I can't get on board with from this though is a Tayside League being a Lowland feeder, unless you mean as part of a regionalised Tier 8 (or even 9) if that's the way the EoS decided to go. The leagues feeding the Lowland League and EoS Premier are currently and should remain for the whole region they represent not sub regions. If there are leagues below the EoS Premier or EoS First that are regionalised then I can see that having some logic but I don't see why they'd have to keep the Junior name, especially if former non-junior clubs could end up being relegated into it.

 

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Marshmallo said:

LongTimeLurker is the latest onto the payroll after Superbigal last season. Regular posters on pyramid threads who became junior shills purposely muddying the water almost overnight.

There is no point in engaging with someone who is acting in bad faith - he doesn't believe a single thing he's posting here.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Another one who doesn't seem to be able to grasp that my posts are all about trying to understand what is happening rather than supporting it or blaming any league or association for the posture they hold.

If that was true you wouldnt be talking the pish you are talking or talking up the ideas that the juniors are coming away with. You keep repeating yourself it isnt going to happen. The lowland league wont split. So we will be exactly where we are because the west wont just drop in at tier 6 and ersjfa south join the eos league. Simple

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

There is no point in engaging with someone who is acting in bad faith - he doesn't believe a single thing he's posting here.

It's like a conservative US radio host - "I'm just asking questions"

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, superbigal said:

Aye not.
I posted the sfa lowland pyramid and eos leaked meeting minutes.
No one can dispute the pyramid minutes were anything less than having the juniors "hold all the aces".
My criticism with the eos was the apparent misunderstanding of how this would end (tayside league) and not "waking up" and objecting earlier. The criticism of the lowland league was they took absolutely no formal position till the final kick in the balls (correctly) to the juniors.
Burnieman (correctly) said the proposals were all bollocks from day one while Locheeboy was adamant they were a done deal.
Once again my beef was it took officialdom the whole season to boot it into touch.

I want personally either.
1 A full eos merger with ersjfa and hl/ll boundary moved.
I suggested this before the eos premier 16 were established suggesting the juniors champs got the place 16 that was always available. No idea now how to get the bigger teams like broughty placed.

2 eos merger with ersjfa with fife and south.
Tayside league established possibly with jeanfield and kinnoull (tayport , newburgh, standrews at a stretch) . Boundary changing to make this lowland.
Possible boundary established and agreed between eos and tayside if tayport and st Andrew's etc moved.
 

Chase yourself how can you think tayside teams should be in a league with coldstream that doesnt make any sense. Tayside shouldn't have been in the east in the juniors nevermind now where theirs teams that far down.

The logical steps have been suggested which isntayside goes north the west in as is and ersjfa south join eosfl. I dont want tayside teams in eosfl they dont belong their

[Guest]

Another one who doesn't seem to be able to grasp that my posts are all about trying to understand what is happening rather than supporting it or blaming any league or association for the posture they hold.

[emoji4] And you drone on, and on, and on, and on, and on..... [emoji1787]

Unsurprisingly no one else believes you.

I don't want to blame anyone but, but, but the eos veto. The sfa support the juniors in as one. The sfa want this to happen. The LL supported the eos. The LL will split.....

What utter nonsense. But do keep going. I'm away to get some popcorn.

[superbigal]

I appreciate your honesty in that post, as there were times when it appeared however correctly or erroneously that you were swallowing TJs lines. One thing I can't get on board with from this though is a Tayside League being a Lowland feeder, unless you mean as part of a regionalised Tier 8 (or even 9) if that's the way the EoS decided to go. The leagues feeding the Lowland League and EoS Premier are currently and should remain for the whole region they represent not sub regions. If there are leagues below the EoS Premier or EoS First that are regionalised then I can see that having some logic but I don't see why they'd have to keep the Junior name, especially if former non-junior clubs could end up being relegated into it. 

Cheers point I am making and it is just my opinion.
If (a big if) a tayside league was established.
I would be happy for said league to decide amongst themselves whether they preferred to be in LL or HL territory. There would be no overlap arguments, so if as i expect said league wanted to be in LL territory, hopefully no objections.
Then a big if and it would need the eos to approve. Perhaps sensible for north fife and perth to be part of said block to beef it up a bit.
I accept it may be unpalatable in the south for this to slot in at tier 6 but that is what it would be if it headed north anyway.
I dont think many if any team from said league would have both the ability and licensing requirements to upstage the eos in terms of the promotion slot for years to come. The eos being light years ahead certainly in the latter requirement.

[superbigal]

Chase yourself how can you think tayside teams should be in a league with coldstream that doesnt make any sense. Tayside shouldn't have been in the east in the juniors nevermind now where theirs teams that far down. The logical steps have been suggested which isntayside goes north the west in as is and ersjfa south join eosfl. I dont want tayside teams in eosfl they dont belong their

 

I prefer option 2 Alan

 

However if full merger up to brechin, I would have regionalising at the lowest leagues. Plenty big enough fish to have top 2 leagues all in eventually.

 

 

 

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, superbigal said:

12 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Chase yourself how can you think tayside teams should be in a league with coldstream that doesnt make any sense. Tayside shouldn't have been in the east in the juniors nevermind now where theirs teams that far down.
The logical steps have been suggested which isntayside goes north the west in as is and ersjfa south join eosfl. I dont want tayside teams in eosfl they dont belong their

I prefer option 2 Alan

Any timeline on when Glenrothes are going bust?

[Marten]

2 hours ago, superbigal said:

Aye not.
I posted the sfa lowland pyramid and eos leaked meeting minutes.
No one can dispute the pyramid minutes were anything less than having the juniors "hold all the aces".
My criticism with the eos was the apparent misunderstanding of how this would end (tayside league) and not "waking up" and objecting earlier. The criticism of the lowland league was they took absolutely no formal position till the final kick in the balls (correctly) to the juniors.
Burnieman (correctly) said the proposals were all bollocks from day one while Locheeboy was adamant they were a done deal.
Once again my beef was it took officialdom the whole season to boot it into touch.

Some of the personal attacks on here aren't appropriate imo. Locheeboy has been blamed of deliberately lying for example. I discussed the subject face to face with him and I don't think he did that. Obviously what he said didn't turn out to be the truth, but I believe that he was genuinely convinced it was the truth. You could argue that he was naive to believe certain people who gave him that information and maybe you can blame the people who the information ultimately came from for not being honest, but I think he just passed on the message he believed was the truth.

Whether or not you agree with him, he is a hardworking, genuine guy who does an awful lot for Lochee United and Lochee in general and I respect him a lot for that.