Junior football, what is the future?

[gaz5]

The SJFA seem to have the SFA's support on this Option Z thing and it seems to be about getting the three junior regions into the pyramid at tier 6. Remains to be seen if this is more successful than last year when the EoS were able to block it because of the way that the LL playoff rules are written. The EoS needs to approve any changes to the playoff rules and hence could prevent ERSJFA entry. If the LL is split in two those rules may be null and void.

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

There you go again.

The EoS didn't block it last year. The EoS AND LOWLAND LEAGUE voted unanimously against the ERSJFA at Tier 6 alongside EoS, because it was a silly idea. (It's still a silly idea).

They were also 100% clear that WRSJFA at Tier 6 would be welcomed, no opposition.

Yet here we are a year later having the same discussion, the same misinformation and the West still being tied needlessly to the East (seriously, can anyone explain that?) and the whole thing looking likely to fail again for the same reason, seemingly by design.

Honestly, for those who want a working pyramid it's utterly tedious.

[Guest]

The SJFA seem to have the SFA's support on this Option Z thing and it seems to be about getting the three junior regions into the pyramid at tier 6. Remains to be seen if this is more successful than last year when the EoS were able to block it because of the way that the LL playoff rules are written. The EoS needs to approve any changes to the playoff rules and hence could prevent ERSJFA entry. If the LL is split in two those rules may be null and void.

At what point are you ever going to stop your stale regurgitation of nonsense. Where have the sfa came out and officially backed the sjfa and option z?

Your constant repetition of the same old lines, in the face of evidence and first hand knowledge, as well as the information pertaining to rules, regulations, voting rights, policies and processes of every association currently involved in the pyramid (which you refuse to accept) is tedious.

Just because you repeat it doesn't make it true. Doing the same thing over and over, getting the same outcome, whilst expecting said outcome to change has a definition. Can you guess what it is?

[LongTimeLurker]

I agree on it being utterly tedious, but really couldn't give a flying one on the question of who is to blame. As long as the SJFA are trying to get their whole association in and the EoS won't countenance ERSJFA entry there is no solution to this unless the SFA finds a way to force one side to change their posture. So far the indications are that the SFA want that to be the EoS rather than the SJFA.

[FairWeatherFan]

29 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

Should this not be a simple case of expanding the current pyramid set-up in much the same way as happened the year before last, and any Junior clubs wishing to make the jump should then have to start at the bottom and work their way up??

Who knows at this point. There was complaints about not losing clubs to the Lowland, cups etc

Yet they voted for an option that has the potential to gut the 63 club West Region by seeing a good chunk of those clubs having to fill a 16 Lowland West League. Which forces the West Region to change significantly.

 

[Guest]

I agree on it being utterly tedious, but really couldn't give a flying one on the question of who is to blame. As long as the SJFA are trying to get their whole association in and the EoS won't countenance ERSJFA entry there is no solution to this unless the SFA finds a way to force one side to change their posture. So far the indications are that the SFA want that to be the EoS rather than the SJFA.

You can't be serious. You must be trolling. If you are not I have no words.

You state, time after time, you don't want to blame anyone whilst your next sentence blames the eos for the sjfa's continual failure to deliver for their membership.

Tj and his cronies will do anything to hold and weild their power for another week, another day, another hour and you (and others) continue to believe what they say. In the process of doing this you pick out the most minute detail from a sentence, from a meeting months ago, or a newspaper clipping with no source attached, to try and further the narrative you have been drip fed.

Wake up. The sjfa don't want the sjfa in the pyramid, that's why you aren't there. The west could have been in last year and the east easily negotiated into the conference set up, but magically this didn't happen because when that happens, at the very point agreement is reached, tj and his pals are out of a job. The association is no more. It ceases in its current form. They go from having all the power to running a couple of run of the mill cups.

Seriously, wake up.

[gaz5]

I agree on it being utterly tedious, but really couldn't give a flying one on the question of who is to blame. As long as the SJFA are trying to get their whole association in and the EoS won't countenance ERSJFA entry there is no solution to this unless the SFA finds a way to force one side to change their posture. So far the indications are that the SFA want that to be the EoS rather than the SJFA.

You don't care who is to blame yet you keep apportioning that blame in one direction? Aye, ok.

There is a solution, a really simple on, to move this forward. It's even one of the options on the paper. The one that everyone HAS ALREADY AGREED TO who had the power to say no.

Longer term, I have no issue with splitting LL East and West, that is probably a better reflection of the population imbalance. But you don't build a house from the roof down.

What are we missing right now? A West feeder. It's that one of the options on the paper? Yes. Do we have a really strong setup who could become that West feeder? Yes. Does everyone want that West feeder in? Mostly yes (certainly everyone with a vote).

This shit really isn't hard.

The North have seemingly broken off and are having discussions themselves without the SJFA, which is a positive.

Unfortunately in the LL area the SJFA are making this harder than it has to be and on the surface of it that's about nothing more than self preservation.

What this needs is the SFA to take the bull by the horns and put together a 5 year plan that everyone agrees to, where are we trying to get to and how is it going to work:

Year 1: West Juniors into Pyramid feeding LL and top West Teams start licencing process
Year 2: HL/LL dividing line issue resolved, South of Tay ERSJFA merged with EoS league, North of Tay ERSJFA in Tayside league ready to go north or south depending on dividing line location
Year 3: Split LL East and West with clubs who have gotten licenced able to apply for vacancies, preference given on finishing league position in EoS premier and West Premier. 3 way playoff format defined and trialled
Year 4: Abolish club 42 playoff with straight relegation, promotion for HL/LLE/LLW champion, playoff between Club 41 and HL/LLE/LLW runner up
Year 5: Start looking at amateur associations beneath the current structure and feed them in. Next 5 year plan for that announced and agreed.

Off the top of my head.

Clear for everyone, fully inclusive of all the issues, agreed at the outset with everyone knowing what they are aiming for and the timelines.

[FairWeatherFan]

The West Region went through a year's notice to get to the 16-16-16-15.

Is it really going to be happy to scramble for a league set up in 2021-22 when the Lowland League picks the successful applicants? I mean 6-10 could go in matter of weeks notice, and it would be across different divisions. Not just the top 6-10 from the West Premiership in 2020-21.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

....You state, time after time, you don't want to blame anyone whilst your next sentence blames the eos for the sjfa's continual failure to deliver for their membership....

You have serious problems with English language comprehension. What I wrote says nothing at all about the question of blame or who I personally think should be forced to back down. It only addresses who the SFA as the national association seem to want to force to give way at this point.

[Guest]

You have serious problems with English language comprehension. What I wrote says nothing at all about the question of blame or who I personally think should be forced to back down. It only addresses who the SFA as the national association seem to want to force to give way at this point.

I give up. Yes I do have issues with language comprehension. I dont speak fluent moron.  

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The West Region went through a year's notice to get to the 16-16-16-15.

Is it really going to be happy to scramble for a league set up in 2021-22 when the Lowland League picks the successful applicants? I mean 6-10 could go in matter of weeks notice, and it would be across different divisions. Not just the top 6-10 from the West Premiership in 2020-21.

I'd question whether most of the people at the meeting would have even understood that was going to be an issue with Option Z after the reactions to sweeps posts earlier.

[Black & Red Socks]

You can't be serious. You must be trolling. If you are not I have no words.

Seriously, wake up.

Indeed. The most subtle of trolls, couched in comfortable, erudite language. I’m not entirely sure he believes it himself but he will continue to finesse a statement, a sentence or even a word to his take on the matter. You can mine anyone’s words and take from them what you want - this fella does this in spades. Someone said it has become tedious but it’s actually beyond that - way, way, way beyond that.

[8MileBU]

There is zero chance of an EoS league and an East Junior league competing against each other or in parallel leagues for places in the Lowland League. TJ and his cronies are kidding on the clubs in the ERSJFA when they promise such nonsense. When will the penny drop for the Junior sides still in the EoS area they need to make the move. #NoRegrets

 

With all due respect to some of the clubs left in the ERSJFA, a lot of what they’re up against would be given a run for their money by a good amateur side. The idea they should be regarded as the same level or in a parallel league to the EOS is farcical.

 

Just thinking if there's anyone in the west who could 'do a kelty'.

 

Essentially if a big club jumps now they'll probably win the SOS and would have a good chance of being promoted through the playoff to the LL. Its catapulted Kelty and Bonnyrigg almost into the Football League.

 

Exactly this. Kelty and Bonnyrigg’s progress only adds weight to the argument that any new clubs joining the pyramid should be starting from the bottom and earning their spot on merit.

 

There appears to be a real sense of entitlement emanating from the West Juniors. I would suggest the WRSJFA and it’s member clubs should file their fast-tracking ideas in the bin, have a bit of integrity, start at the bottom and go prove they’re as good as they think they are.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SJFA seem to have the SFA's support on this Option Z thing and it seems to be about getting the three junior regions into the pyramid at tier 6.

You keep claiming the SFA and the SJFA are in cahoots for the LL West/East thing.

Take a step back to last years AGM where the SFA proposed a motion to remove voting rights of new members who are below tier 5. Presumably because SPFL clubs are worried about balance of power.

Now we're expected to believe it's SFA policy to bring in 16 more clubs (let's assume they're all licenced) into tier 5 for 2021-22, thereby tipping the balance of power with 48 clubs at HL/LL level as opposed to the current 32 clubs, versus 42 SPFL clubs.

Seriously?   Let's face it, it's a brain fart from Petrie at best, it is not SFA policy to promote this "solution"

[FairWeatherFan]

On a sidenote the next voice of the juniors podcast should be interesting.

[Ray Patterson]

If there's one thing I can guarantee that won't happen is the creation of a LL West anytime soon.

Please bookmark this.

[Sidney Lumet]

If there's one thing I can guarantee that won't happen is the creation of a LL West anytime soon.

Please bookmark this.

Agreed. Agreed x 100, perhaps agreed x 1000.

If there is anyone, anyone at all, who reads this and is affiliated in any way to a West Region club who are yet to find a definitive position in all of this then please, please understand that LongTimeLurker is looking for and, worse, implying nuances, inferences,subtleties and more that are simply not there.

Here is the simplicity of it all - the WRSJFA are in thrall to the SJFA who will do anything, anything at all to retain their relevance until TJ reaches retirement. If that means the open goal of the WRSJFA entering the pyramid next season with everyone’s support - for LongTimeLurkers understanding that means EVERYONES support including the EOSFL, and we really don’t need to reiterate that for anyone but him - is missed then so be it. Indeed, for TJ and the SJFA that IS the goal - no integration, no west juniors in the pyramid. Believe it.

[Robert James]

5 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said:

There is zero chance of an EoS league and an East Junior league competing against each other or in parallel leagues for places in the Lowland League. TJ and his cronies are kidding on the clubs in the ERSJFA when they promise such nonsense. When will the penny drop for the Junior sides still in the EoS area they need to make the move. #NoRegrets

Am I missing something, or are we forgetting that the PWG/SFA stated very clearly last year, that it would not accept two geographically split ERSFA premier leagues at tier 6 in the pyramid ?   Or has the ERJFA already decided to end the north/south of Tay split, with or without the agreement of its junior clubs, and therefore will revert to an integrated/vertical structure for 202/21 (or 2021/22) ?

If however the existing East Junior horizontal north/south (split) structure is retained, it would also prevent the West Juniors from joining at tier 6, thereby killing off the SJFA's 'preferred'  option, whereby the West & East Regions would join at the same time  (and at the same tier ?)l                 .

Or am I wrong ?   

[Robert James]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

You keep claiming the SFA and the SJFA are in cahoots for the LL West/East thing.

Take a step back to last years AGM where the SFA proposed a motion to remove voting rights of new members who are below tier 5. Presumably because SPFL clubs are worried about balance of power.

Now we're expected to believe it's SFA policy to bring in 16 more clubs (let's assume they're all licenced) into tier 5 for 2021-22, thereby tipping the balance of power with 48 clubs at HL/LL level as opposed to the current 32 clubs, versus 42 SPFL clubs.

Seriously?   Let's face it, it's a brain fart from Petrie at best, it is not SFA policy to promote this "solution"

The SPFL clubs themselves would definitely kick out any loss of power caused by having extra pyramid non-league clubs at tier 5.

In my view, if this is to be seriously suggested, the SFA will change its licensing rules (eg seating levels), to restrict (reduce ?) the number of its Member clubs

 

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

On holiday in NZ and thought I would pop back onto this thread during a wee quiet time trying to get over the jet lag to see how the West Region meeting went

"Ignored all the the options they were gonna talk about and come up with something new and unworkable whilst being racist" was somehow both incredulous and, equally, unsurprising at the same time.

[LongTimeLurker]

Option Z was one of the four options the SFA provided for discussion ahead of the next PWG meeting and wasn't something new. It might be workable if splitting the LL takes away the ability of the EoS to veto changes to the LL playoff format. We don't have long to wait to find out if that's the end game where the Hampden based blazers of the SFA and SJFA are concerned.