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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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3 minutes ago, Dev said:

Presumably any club which is applying for a licence and is expecting to be in a Senior League for 2020/21 couldn't be held back by the SFA?

… so maybe the SFA will be in a position to start the licencing process for Cumnock and Petershill, and any other current West Region Junior club moving into a senior league situation in 2020/21. Indeed, or any other club moving into the EoS (or the Highand League for that matter) for next season.

Blackburn & Dalkeith were unable to start the licensing process until they had been accepted by the EoS in April 2018. Even then I believe it's up to the Licensing Committee to confirm the acceptance of the application. That didn't happen until May/June.

Until it's confirmed the West Region will be in the pyramid for 2020-2021 I don't believe any club would be allowed to start the process. If that happens at this week's PWG, applications probably won't be heard by the Licensing Committee until February. February being the new deadline to have everything assessed and completed for SFA membership in 2020-21.

Going on past precedence and the new deadline it doesn't look like enough time for current junior clubs to be licensed in time for 2020-21.

That doesn't stop clubs joining the EoS. Doesn't stop the West Region entering the pyramid in 2020-21. It is only a potential problem for a club wanting to join the HFL, but Banks O'Dee are already licensed and nobody else is rumoured as interested.

 

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Blackburn & Dalkeith were unable to start the licensing process until they had been accepted by the EoS in April 2018. Even then I believe it's up to the Licensing Committee to confirm the acceptance of the application. That didn't happen until May/June.
Until it's confirmed the West Region will be in the pyramid for 2020-2021 I don't believe any club would be allowed to start the process. If that happens at this week's PWG, applications probably won't be heard by the Licensing Committee until February. February being the new deadline to have everything assessed and completed for SFA membership in 2020-21.
Going on past precedence and the new deadline it doesn't look like enough time for current junior clubs to be licensed in time for 2020-21.
That doesn't stop clubs joining the EoS. Doesn't stop the West Region entering the pyramid in 2020-21. It is only a potential problem for a club wanting to join the HFL, but Banks O'Dee are already licensed and nobody else is rumoured as interested.
 
re: clubs looking to join the Highland League I saw a rumour on another forum that Bridge Of Don Thistle are interested in moving up to the HL. Ofc do to so the club would need a waiver of sorts as they have no licence & can't obtain one currently being outwith the pyramid.

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26 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:
38 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
Blackburn & Dalkeith were unable to start the licensing process until they had been accepted by the EoS in April 2018. Even then I believe it's up to the Licensing Committee to confirm the acceptance of the application. That didn't happen until May/June.
Until it's confirmed the West Region will be in the pyramid for 2020-2021 I don't believe any club would be allowed to start the process. If that happens at this week's PWG, applications probably won't be heard by the Licensing Committee until February. February being the new deadline to have everything assessed and completed for SFA membership in 2020-21.
Going on past precedence and the new deadline it doesn't look like enough time for current junior clubs to be licensed in time for 2020-21.
That doesn't stop clubs joining the EoS. Doesn't stop the West Region entering the pyramid in 2020-21. It is only a potential problem for a club wanting to join the HFL, but Banks O'Dee are already licensed and nobody else is rumoured as interested.
 

re: clubs looking to join the Highland League I saw a rumour on another forum that Bridge Of Don Thistle are interested in moving up to the HL. Ofc do to so the club would need a waiver of sorts as they have no licence & can't obtain one currently being outwith the pyramid.

However, it is a Chicken and Egg situation now and if the SFA mean to facilitate a Pyramid they could perhaps take a step back and try to understand that they are causing a blockage with regard to licencing and to movement up to the Highland League - but not to clubs moving to senior football in the east of Scotland.

 

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25 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:
37 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
Blackburn & Dalkeith were unable to start the licensing process until they had been accepted by the EoS in April 2018. Even then I believe it's up to the Licensing Committee to confirm the acceptance of the application. That didn't happen until May/June.
Until it's confirmed the West Region will be in the pyramid for 2020-2021 I don't believe any club would be allowed to start the process. If that happens at this week's PWG, applications probably won't be heard by the Licensing Committee until February. February being the new deadline to have everything assessed and completed for SFA membership in 2020-21.
Going on past precedence and the new deadline it doesn't look like enough time for current junior clubs to be licensed in time for 2020-21.
That doesn't stop clubs joining the EoS. Doesn't stop the West Region entering the pyramid in 2020-21. It is only a potential problem for a club wanting to join the HFL, but Banks O'Dee are already licensed and nobody else is rumoured as interested.
 

re: clubs looking to join the Highland League I saw a rumour on another forum that Bridge Of Don Thistle are interested in moving up to the HL. Ofc do to so the club would need a waiver of sorts as they have no licence & can't obtain one currently being outwith the pyramid.

That's probably the case and has probably always been so. Its not much different to how they were meant to lower some of their ground standards when accepting Formartine, Turriff and Strathspey knowing they had made a commitment to improve them.

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Well BOD Thistle play at Aberdeen Sports Village which is certainly not far off HL requirements. Needs turnstiles, and a peh shop.

But I'm pretty sure when that poster on another thread said BOD Thistle, he meant Banks o' Dee and not Foxholes Thistle as some are calling them.

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Haven't been on here for a while and there is no way I am looking through these pages.

Question : "The Scottish Junior Cup" will it be retained and we'll it be changed to s different name once the move with the juniors is made?

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10 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

Well BOD Thistle play at Aberdeen Sports Village which is certainly not far off HL requirements. Needs turnstiles, and a peh shop.

But I'm pretty sure when that poster on another thread said BOD Thistle, he meant Banks o' Dee and not Foxholes Thistle as some are calling them.

Interesting, especially if two BOD's apply for HFL membership in 2020/21, as it is hard to see if a 36 match season is manageable in the Highlands.

Bridge of Don and Bank O'Dee (already rumoured for 20/21 (despite declining to join this season) at the same time ? Also, how about Aberdeen University FC, which has the facilities, and floodlights, also applying ? The Uni was a full member of the SFA in the early 70's.

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Haven't been on here for a while and there is no way I am looking through these pages.

Question : "The Scottish Junior Cup" will it be retained and we'll it be changed to s different name once the move with the juniors is made?


Unconfirmed. In short no one knows. My view, it isnt required in the pyramid as there is already enough cups on the go.

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13 minutes ago, G4Mac said:
29 minutes ago, Boswelldriver said:
Haven't been on here for a while and there is no way I am looking through these pages.

Question : "The Scottish Junior Cup" will it be retained and we'll it be changed to s different name once the move with the juniors is made?

 

Unconfirmed. In short no one knows. My view, it isnt required in the pyramid as there is already enough cups on the go.

Short term it will remain as there aren't existing senior cup competitions that the West Region in the pyramid would be obligated to participate in. To fit their season into the pyramid calendar the Junior Cup will probably have to be rejigged a little to help avoid fixture congestion. So replays and two legged semi finals might have to be looked at.

The cup's already been hit with the loss some of the biggest East Juniors, there's going to be the gradual loss of other clubs to promotion or league movements and the cup will have to be streamlined as noted. Eventually you'll see some sort of merger or the creation of a new competition as the senior clubs don't seem as tied to the junior nostalgia. A newer name with SFA support would probably be more attractive for sponsorship purposes as well.

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5 hours ago, Dev said:

However, it is a Chicken and Egg situation now and if the SFA mean to facilitate a Pyramid they could perhaps take a step back and try to understand that they are causing a blockage with regard to licencing and to movement up to the Highland League - but not to clubs moving to senior football in the east of Scotland.

 

Or a 2-tier highland league???

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4 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

Well BOD Thistle play at Aberdeen Sports Village which is certainly not far off HL requirements. Needs turnstiles, and a peh shop.

But I'm pretty sure when that poster on another thread said BOD Thistle, he meant Banks o' Dee and not Foxholes Thistle as some are calling them.

Aberdeen Sports Village would also need floodlights surely? http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/bridgeofdon.htm

4 hours ago, Boswelldriver said:

Question : "The Scottish Junior Cup" will it be retained and we'll it be changed to s different name once the move with the juniors is made?

Well the junior clubs have the Junior Cup, and the senior non-league clubs have the South Challenge Cup - if/when everyone comes together then there should be one cup competition for all non-league clubs in the south. So either the Junior Cup accepts all the senior teams, or everyone enters the South Challenge Cup instead.

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41 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Or a 2-tier highland league???

They can't allow a chicken & egg situation to develop due to all the foxes in their area.

 

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13 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Aberdeen Sports Village would also need floodlights surely? http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/bridgeofdon.htm

Some of the pics show there are lights around the area of the pitch. Going by the pricing the Outdoor Athletics area, which has the pitch at its centre, is available both peak and off peak. Which would mean its available till 10.30pm on some days.

13 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Well the junior clubs have the Junior Cup, and the senior non-league clubs have the South Challenge Cup - if/when everyone comes together then there should be one cup competition for all non-league clubs in the south. So either the Junior Cup accepts all the senior teams, or everyone enters the South Challenge Cup instead.

Or they eventually just merge or scrap them for a new competition.

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10 minutes ago, Ped said:

The easiest way would to adopt the English FA vase idea 

More the FA Trophy which is for the National League and some of the other top non-leagues. The Scottish Amateur Cup would be like the FA Vase.

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The EoSL dealt okay with the 'round robin'  Conference play-offs last season.  If the West clubs join, only ONE promotion spot to the SLL, shared with the EoSL (no, I haven't forgotten the much weaker SoSL), sounds like a pyramid 'log jam'. to me. 
Also, Edinburgh City (and now Cove Rangers) seem to have coped, even though they now play 36 league games in the SPFL each season. Discounting the popular Scottish Cup, would fans prefer cup games to league fixtures ? Which attracts the higher attendances ?
 

The EoS didn’t play a 34 game league and wasn’t a inter division play-off so running behind was never an issue.

The 36 game spfl Callander can’t be compared with LL, firstly the LL needs to declare a champion over 2 weeks earlier and otherwise needs to allow for more cup games(there will be clubs involved in 6 cups with 3/4 being the norm in spfl), you say drop cup games but where? the south challenge cup isn’t going away and neither is the LL going to want to lose out on opportunities to play spfl clubs. You could play the qualifying cup midweek I guess, but that’s about it. Lowland League cup is post-season anyway.


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On 07/12/2019 at 11:34, FairWeatherFan said:

Going forward it's more likely to be a new competition formed. Which has always been the idea from the Senior side of things.

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I badly hope this happens, because the name recognition matters. You could have identical cup competitions with the same clubs, but if Linlithgow Rose drew someone like Pollok at home the mere name of the Junior Cup would put hundreds more on the gate than 'South Challenge Cup' (which is a rubbish name anyway). If we made the final, we'd get a few hundred travelling to a South Challenge Cup final, but 5,000 to a Junior Cup final.

It doesn't matter if the HL clubs don't join - it would be great if they did, but no loss if they don't.

The name matters - it's the only non-league competition most folk in these communities have heard of. 

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7 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I badly hope this happens, because the name recognition matters. You could have identical cup competitions with the same clubs, but if Linlithgow Rose drew someone like Pollok at home the mere name of the Junior Cup would put hundreds more on the gate than 'South Challenge Cup' (which is a rubbish name anyway). If we made the final, we'd get a few hundred travelling to a South Challenge Cup final, but 5,000 to a Junior Cup final.

It doesn't matter if the HL clubs don't join - it would be great if they did, but no loss if they don't.

The name matters - it's the only non-league competition most folk in these communities have heard of. 

The name matters, but the name is also a problem.  You will not get a all-encompassing non-league competition by calling it "Junior".

I'm sure the great minds of Scottish football can come up with an alternative which will, over time, capture the imagination.  With the SFA taking ownership of Hampden, that alone would boost the profile of a new competition.

 

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The name matters, but the name is also a problem.  You will not get a all-encompassing non-league competition by calling it "Junior".
I'm sure the great minds of Scottish football can come up with an alternative which will, over time, capture the imagination.  With the SFA taking ownership of Hampden, that alone would boost the profile of a new competition.
 
Will there be an appetite amongst all non league clubs for a national competition? You can understand that a national junior cup was the holy grail, as it meant the winners were the top dogs in the country at that particular grade at football. But would this still be the case for the Lowland League clubs etc?

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10 minutes ago, energyzone said:
5 hours ago, Burnie_man said:
The name matters, but the name is also a problem.  You will not get a all-encompassing non-league competition by calling it "Junior".
I'm sure the great minds of Scottish football can come up with an alternative which will, over time, capture the imagination.  With the SFA taking ownership of Hampden, that alone would boost the profile of a new competition.
 

Will there be an appetite amongst all non league clubs for a national competition? You can understand that a national junior cup was the holy grail, as it meant the winners were the top dogs in the country at that particular grade at football. But would this still be the case for the Lowland League clubs etc?

The LL clubs already participate in the South Region Challenge Cup which has grown to the point it has 7 rounds. If you included every current pyramid league outside the SPFL, add the NCL and the SJFA clubs to that competition it would have 8 rounds. So it wouldn't be significantly different to the commitment they currently make.

Plus clubs opt out of the Junior Cup and the Amateur Cup. Why would this be any different?

Girvan are eligible to compete in the South Region Challenge Cup due to their previous participation in the last Qualifying Cup (South). They choose not to compete.

All you really have to do is rebrand the SFA* South Region Challenge Cup to the Scottish Open Challenge Cup and invite all pyramid league clubs or SFA members not in the SPFL.

*Not actually ran by the SFA anymore

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