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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

So if one of the Glasgow area clubs in the LL are relegated they would need to join the SJFA to be able to enter the West Super - as things stand

Yes unless the constitution was changed and agreement reached between the LL and SJFA/WRJFA.

Presumably if they chose to join the EOSL instead they would need to apply to join them as well or is there already an agreement between the 2 Associations.

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Just now, santheman said:

Yes unless the constitution was changed and agreement reached between the LL and SJFA/WRJFA.

Presumably if they chose to join the EOSL instead they would need to apply to join them as well or is there already an agreement between the 2 Associations.

A relegated club from the Lowland League doesn't need to apply to a league. They are guaranteed a place in the SoSFL or now the EoS Premier Division. They do not have to join the EoSFA and SCFA.

In fact if Gretna 2008 were to be relegated they would be a member of the EoSFA and compete in the SoSFL.

 

8 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

So if one of the Glasgow area clubs in the LL are relegated they would need to join the SJFA to be able to enter the West Super - as things stand

And as things stand the Lowland League Pyramid Play-off needs to be changed in order for the West Premiership to participate. There's going to have be slight rule amendments on all sides once its agreed in principle how the play-off will function.

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12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

And as things stand the Lowland League Pyramid Play-off needs to be changed in order for the West Premiership to participate. There's going to have be slight rule amendments on all sides once its agreed in principle how the play-off will function.

Well, the SJFA constitution would have to be changed to allow ANY club to join a Junior Region without first being an SJFA member.

That is significant, it effectively kills off the SJFA and relegates them to an association that runs one cup and nothing else.

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2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Well, the SJFA constitution would have to be changed to allow ANY club to join a Junior Region without first being an SJFA member.

That is significant, it effectively kills off the SJFA and relegates them to an association that runs one cup and nothing else.

The EoS has already pushed and got the concession that the SFA would look over the discliplinary over Tier 6.

image.png.bdd4ffe933631d0cb7f5452ace704be5.png

So, yeah the SJFA is basically running a cup. A cup that gets streamlined to fit into the fixture calendar which means they lose further funding. Having already lost money generated by adopting the same rules as the SFA. Less money, less influence, less SJFA.

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The EoS has already pushed and got the concession that the SFA would look over the discliplinary over Tier 6.
image.png.bdd4ffe933631d0cb7f5452ace704be5.png
So, yeah the SJFA is basically running a cup. A cup that gets streamlined to fit into the fixture calendar which means they lose further funding. Having already lost money generated by adopting the same rules as the SFA. Less money, less influence, less SJFA.
Can you see TJ agreeing to that?
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Just now, Burnie_man said:
2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
The EoS has already pushed and got the concession that the SFA would look over the discliplinary over Tier 6.
image.png.bdd4ffe933631d0cb7f5452ace704be5.png
So, yeah the SJFA is basically running a cup. A cup that gets streamlined to fit into the fixture calendar which means they lose further funding. Having already lost money generated by adopting the same rules as the SFA. Less money, less influence, less SJFA.

Can you see TJ agreeing to that?

Well it's already been established that the SFA will oversee Tier 6 for everyone, they've also aligned with the SFA rules.

 

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On 10/01/2020 at 16:21, Burnie_man said:

The status of the WRJFA also needs clarified. You can't compete in a Junior league without being a member of the SJFA, so would any relegated club to the WRJFA (eg Colts) need to apply for membership of the SJFA?  If not, that needs a change to the rules and does it open the gateway to the likes of Glasgow Uni (as an SFA member club) applying to join the WRJFA  and enter the Pyramid but without SJFA membership (or any non-SJFA club for that matter?).

The relationship between SJFA and WRJFA needs clarified before the league enters, or simply the WRJFA cuts ties and becomes the WoSFL with membership of the SJFA for clubs being optional (like the EoSFL and the EoSFA).

Theoretically, it would open the way for Glasgow University, but as far as I know, there is no intention  (at present) that the Uni would wish to do so. However if in future the SFA  changed the licensing rules to exclude the (current) SFA Member clubs who are not playing in a pyramid 'feeder' league (ie Banks O'Dee, Golspie, Girvan, in addition to Glasgow Uni), then their views could change. 

However, if I am wrong, and Glasgow Uni did decide to enter the pyramid when the West junior join 'en bloc', would the students enter at Tier 6, thereby displacing one WRJFA Premier club from the top junior division? 

Not sensible, but if the remaining ERJFA (south) clubs are able to enter the pyramid (late) at Tier 6 (as some posters on here argue), then the same 'status' would (surely) have to be given to the students as well !!

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8 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:
1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:
Well it's already been established that the SFA will oversee Tier 6 for everyone, they've also aligned with the SFA rules.
 

The WRJFA will have a tier 7, 8 and 9, so I wonder how that will work.

I have no idea. You know as well as I do that the SJFA wanted to carry on doing the disclipinary themselves. That's what the whole discussion was over fines, as they said they needed that for funding. The EoS kept pushing for the SFA to do it, the SFA were happy to let the SJFA keep doing it. This seems to be the compromise.

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I have no idea. You know as well as I do that the SJFA wanted to carry on doing the disclipinary themselves. That's what the whole discussion was over fines, as they said they needed that for funding. The EoS kept pushing for the SFA to do it, the SFA were happy to let the SJFA keep doing it. This seems to be the compromise.
Not sure it will cut the mustard, it was described by the LL as a "red line". You can't have tier 7 EoS clubs discipline looked after by the SFA, and tier 7 clubs in the west looked after by another Association. The SFA need to handle all of it.
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Essentially to enter the pyramid, at any level, you are no longer governed or inhibited by another associations rules. The sfa oversee the entire pyramid and the rules that applied in junior football would cease to exist, you would be working off of the same rulings for squads size, player signings etc as the rest of Scottish professional football.

 

In essence the sjfa would hold no ruling over anything a club did, the sfa would be the association a club is answerable to.

 

If your team entered an under 20s into the footballing structure you could have a 1st team squad of 20 (or more) and an under 20s squad of 20 (or more), meaning the 1st team manager has the pick of over 40 players each week. Also, as 20s players and 1st team players sign the same contract (not a dual contract as many like to say and use as some form of selling point) 20s players are eligible as many times as you like for the 1st team through a season. Added to that 1st team, over age players, can play a maximum of 6 times for the under 20s over a season. This allows injured 1st team players to get game time prior to returning to action.

 

Many, many benefits of being in the pyramid.

 

You can see why tj and the sjfa don't want to lose their grip on the sjfa and its influence over everything.

 

 

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Thanks mate, all sounds like too much forward thinking for the juniors I’m sure we’ll have another year of a dead duck association clinging on for dear life with the same dinosaur rules that’s stopping progress for a 20s.

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1 hour ago, G4Mac said:

Essentially to enter the pyramid, at any level, you are no longer governed or inhibited by another associations rules. The sfa oversee the entire pyramid and the rules that applied in junior football would cease to exist, you would be working off of the same rulings for squads size, player signings etc as the rest of Scottish professional football.

 

In essence the sjfa would hold no ruling over anything a club did, the sfa would be the association a club is answerable to.

 

If your team entered an under 20s into the footballing structure you could have a 1st team squad of 20 (or more) and an under 20s squad of 20 (or more), meaning the 1st team manager has the pick of over 40 players each week. Also, as 20s players and 1st team players sign the same contract (not a dual contract as many like to say and use as some form of selling point) 20s players are eligible as many times as you like for the 1st team through a season. Added to that 1st team, over age players, can play a maximum of 6 times for the under 20s over a season. This allows injured 1st team players to get game time prior to returning to action.

 

Many, many benefits of being in the pyramid.

 

You can see why tj and the sjfa don't want to lose their grip on the sjfa and its influence over everything.

 

 

Is the dual contract not only a Juniors thing where youth can play both, and not all 20s and 1st team sign the same contract, they are contracted to the club but not necessarily the same contract.

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17 minutes ago, BTID said:

Does anyone know if the west does come in at whatever level if they are technically classed as a ‘senior’ club would they be able to sign more than 25 players as the current junior rule stands?

That should be a question asked by your club's representative at the West Region's meeting on Thursday...

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Is the dual contract not only a Juniors thing where youth can play both, and not all 20s and 1st team sign the same contract, they are contracted to the club but not necessarily the same contract.
I have heard of some young players being enticed to other clubs with the promise of a 'dual contract'...... A thing that doesn't exist for professional clubs.

Yes there are 3 types of contract a player may sign but to keep the post short i bulked all 3 together because frankly, if you sign for a 20s you can play for the 1st team, in the professional game.

Some clubs though do still like to poach young talent by promising them 1st team football to get them to sign from another clubs 20s or youth team, like an under 19s, then end up playing the young lad in 20s for the rest of the season, which is a shame really.
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9 hours ago, G4Mac said:

Some clubs though do still like to poach young talent by promising them 1st team football to get them to sign from another clubs 20s or youth team, like an under 19s, then end up playing the young lad in 20s for the rest of the season, which is a shame really.

Yep seen that first hand with a few boys in the local area being promised things, normally happens early in the season with friendlies and such, but the reality is that boys at that age they are still learning the game and any contact with training or playing in 1st team games is part of the process in their development and as long as that's explained then you got yourself covered, any young lad who thinks they will walk into a 1st team without proving himself on a weekly basis is really kidding themselves on and that's what you end up finding out is that their own expectations and reality are not close and they have a lot of hard work to move a 1st choice player out the team.

Lots of promising young lads out there with hard work and proper development have a chance especially at the lower league side of things where conferences are still very unevenly matched teams to give these boys game time

 

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Just on 'dual contracts' - it's a delayed transfer - a loan - with a fancy unofficial name. And they're as useful as a chocolate teapot from 21s to Junior because they both play saturdays. The 19s in Glasgow at least play sundays - but how many 18 year olds are going to cut it at the better clubs at that age? They seem to just sit on the bench picking splinters out their rear end when numbers are low. A few from Lok's 19s have established themselves - Tony Coutts and Sena Niang got signed us, as did Mikey McWilliams but he has been loaned out to other Junior clubs for almost his entire time since. Sena since moved on to the SPFL though so a bit of an unusual one.

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