Junior football, what is the future?

[GNU_Linux]

No idea if they would but the Lowland League could whip out the Lowland League 2 idea that was floated at one point although I don't believe it ever got to the working group stage.

[parsforlife]

No idea if they would but the Lowland League could whip out the Lowland League 2 idea that was floated at one point although I don't believe it ever got to the working group stage.

I don’t see it happening if the West juniors come in at tier 6.

It was largely a protective move by clubs worried about the standard of league they could fall into(and possibly BSC looking for a place for their reserves) with the strength of EoS premier and west juniors as a potential option that fear is bound to disappear.

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Presumably you’d be looking at a play-off of (randomly draw)

East champions vs club 42
West champions vs HL

Winner tie A vs winner tie B. Winning finalist in spfl.

In which case there’s no chance of spfl approval. It effectively doubles the chance of relegation.

Tho I kinda agree option 4 works long term, it needs far more to happen first tho. You need WJFA in the pyramid for a few years for clubs to get licensed and time for a few more EoS clubs licensed. You probably need 40+ Lowland region clubs licensed to justify the extra opportunity to go up and to provide strong enough leagues to get relegated into. You would also need the situation in the east sorted so the EJFA does just become a tayside league and EoS takes south of tay. You would need to re-address the infamous boundary and agree on where the west/east line lies as well.

2031 maybe, but 2021 is never achievable and it’s far too long of time scale to commit anything to right away, it only works if those goals are achieved ‘naturally’

 

I agree it won't pass and that's why I asked if the SPFL have any insight into the proposal. Petrie might be okay with it from his view a top of the SPFL, but the 20+ part time clubs won't be keen.

However, I would say it would be entirely possible to get it done in time for 2021. The West is half way there to get a decent 16 team league of licensed clubs and the East is already sorted.

[GNU_Linux]

Saw this on NLM. I know it's only rumour but thus far rumours have pointed to a handful of clubs looking at a move rather than the majority. Same poster that was quoted the other day.

. No wonder that the vast majority of the remaining Junior clubs in Fife and the Lothians are rumoured to be making the switch to the East of Scotland League next season – not that they will initially be licensed but they will be allowed to embark upon the process should they wish to.

https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forums/index.php?threads/sat-14th-dec.274/page-2#post-1617

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

1. WRJFA in for next season, ERJFA remain out of Pyramid.

2. WRJFA in for next season, ERJFA join at tier 7 and feed into EoS Premier.

Presumably for option 2, it would only be the South Super and Premier Leagues alongside the EOS at tier 7? There's also the complication of what happens with relegation to the ERJFA leagues.

Just seems like prolonging the agony of the junior/senior divide. Surely if you go to all that trouble you might as well go for...

Option 1.5: ERJFA remain outside of pyramid as a Tayside league, but all Fife and Lothian clubs join the EOS at tier 7 with a final season of conferences to sort everything out.

[Black Pennel]

f**k this...see once the six of you work out what it is you want us to do...we're past caring...we'll just do it. Gonnae just tell us what you want from us ? Whatever it is, we don't care anymore...we'll just join in and most of us will win anyway. What the f**k do you actually want ?

[Black Pennel]

P.S. Eight hundred & ninety-six pages of some blokes wish lish fantasies does not constitute a proper pyramid system for fitba.

P.P.S. I do want this to happen...just don't want these wee c***s tae be running it.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

I've kept an eye on these developments from a distance over the years whilst next to nothing has happened.  this moving the boundary to Stonehaven ( essentially  all the way up to Aberdeen) is a great way of effectively leaving the north to do their own thing whilst officially still having them as part of it.  the north will be even weaker so most will be unlikely to get anywhere in the play off ( which sounds like what most of them want anyway) spfl club 42 will almost always be a lowland area club as there are now only 3 highland area teams that can realistically finish bottom of league 2 . Everyone else can get on with moving up and down the pyramid whilst someone can also be crowned champions of Aberdeen shire & Morey

[LongTimeLurker]

The HL:LL boundary was always going to be up for discussion after what happened last season. Not sure why we needed a few more pages arguing over that. Option 2 was something I suggested in this thread at one point. Maybe Rod Petrie is reading the posts.

Think Option 4 is the most sensible one in terms of balancing out the pyramid long term at tier 5 if Tayside clubs are no longer going to be in the HL catchment. The ERSJFA would need to be the Tayside north section only for it to be viable, however. The ERSJFA clearly can't sustain a 16 team tier 6 feeder covering Fauldhouse to Brechin.

 I doubt the SPFL would care that much about having three feeders because team 42 would still be playing the pyramid champion and identifying that champion is supposed to be an SFA matter.

[cmontheloknow]

14 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The HL:LL boundary was always going to be up for discussion after what happened last season. Not sure why we needed a few more pages arguing over that. Option 2 was something I suggested in this thread at one point. Maybe Rod Petrie is reading the posts.

Think Option 4 is the most sensible one in terms of balancing out the pyramid long term at tier 5 if Tayside clubs are no longer going to be in the HL catchment. The ERSJFA would need to be the Tayside north section only for it to be viable, however. The ERSJFA clearly can't sustain a 16 team tier 6 feeder covering Fauldhouse to Brechin.

 I doubt the SPFL would care that much about having three feeders because team 42 would still be playing the pyramid champion and identifying that champion is supposed to be an SFA matter.

Perhaps a doubt whether Fauldhouse will be ERSJFA next season anyway going by some of the stuff floating around re: foxgate!

[Burnie_man]

5 hours ago, Black Pennel said:

f**k this...see once the six of you work out what it is you want us to do...we're past caring...we'll just do it. Gonnae just tell us what you want from us ? Whatever it is, we don't care anymore...we'll just join in and most of us will win anyway. What the f**k do you actually want ?

 

5 hours ago, Black Pennel said:

P.S. Eight hundred & ninety-six pages of some blokes wish lish fantasies does not constitute a proper pyramid system for fitba.

P.P.S. I do want this to happen...just don't want these wee c***s tae be running it.

I love a Sunday sesh as well

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The HL:LL boundary was always going to be up for discussion after what happened last season. Not sure why we needed a few more pages arguing over that. Option 2 was something I suggested in this thread at one point. Maybe Rod Petrie is reading the posts.

Think Option 4 is the most sensible one in terms of balancing out the pyramid long term at tier 5 if Tayside clubs are no longer going to be in the HL catchment. The ERSJFA would need to be the Tayside north section only for it to be viable, however. The ERSJFA clearly can't sustain a 16 team tier 6 feeder covering Fauldhouse to Brechin.

 I doubt the SPFL would care that much about having three feeders because team 42 would still be playing the pyramid champion and identifying that champion is supposed to be an SFA matter.

I'm not particularly convinced that feedback from LL/EoS /SoS clubs will be very positive towards allowing Tayside/Angus clubs to switch from HL catchment.  It makes no sense, regardless of what Brechin City want, it just overloads the LL and marginalises the HL area and makes a Pyramid up there less likely.

As for a LL split, it won't happen anytime soon, as someone else pointed out, you need to get West on board first before even thinking about it and resolve the East issue. Then you need to get the West upto speed on Licencing,.  It should however be a long term aim.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm not particularly convinced that feedback from LL/EoS /SoS clubs will be very positive towards allowing Tayside/Angus clubs to switch from HL catchment.  It makes no sense, regardless of what Brechin City want, it just overloads the LL and marginalises the HL area and makes a Pyramid up there less likely.

As for a LL split, it won't happen anytime soon, as someone else pointed out, you need to get West on board first before even thinking about it and resolve the East issue. Then you need to get the West upto speed on Licencing,.  It should however be a long term aim.

It would need cleared up whether boundary is changing. I cant see them saying brechin have to go to highland league if tayside are foing to feed into lowland league. 

In regards to splitting the lowland league eventually that would be the beat option but just now their isn't enough licenced clubs in the west to make this a viable option 

[LongTimeLurker]

Think an LL west is viable if they do it by application and give clubs two years to get their licence sorted out. It also makes it easy to get the top licensed EoS premier clubs into the mix at tier 5 as quickly as possible. The issue that comes clambering over the horizon though is colt teams, so there may be another agenda behind option 4.

[PastyMan]

13 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

OK, the four "suggestions" are;

1. WRJFA in for next season, ERJFA remain out of Pyramid.

2. WRJFA in for next season, ERJFA join at tier 7 and feed into EoS Premier.

3. Same proposal as a year ago, West and East in at tier 6 next season.

4. LL splits into West and East of 12-16 clubs each for 2021-22, WRJFA and SoS feed into West, ERJFA and EoS feed into East.

None of these are considered firm SFA proposals.   NRJFA remain out of Pyramid.  Leagues to discuss with members and feedback at PWG meeting end of January. 

Views also sought about removing HL/LL boundary.

The only one I can see that will be acceptable to LL and EoS is option 1.  I doubt EoS clubs will agree to option 2, LL won't agree to split, and option 3 has already been rejected.

Hopefully someone has kept the original back of a fag packet Rod Petrie wrote these ideas on for the Scottish Football Museum at Hampden

[craigkillie]

13 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Has the SPFL basically given it's approval for these since Option 4 was meant to be something they didn't want?

 

I'd imagine the E/W split will be more appealing to the Lowland SPFL clubs now than it would have been when the pyramid was originally developed. With the involvement of the West Junior teams, each of those two leagues will individually be stronger and more appealing than the current Lowland League. Based on current standings (and assuming current H/L boundary) you could have something like:

LL East (16)

Kelty Hearts
Bonnyrigg Rose
East Stirlingshire
Civil Service Strollers
Spartans
Stirling Uni
Gala Fairydean Rovers
Berwick Rangers
Edinburgh Uni
Vale of Leithen
Bo'ness United
Camelon
Penicuik Athletic
Tranent
Hill of Beath
Broxburn

LL West (16)

BSC Glasgow
Caledonian Braves
Cumbernauld Colts
East Kilbride
Dalbeattie Star
Gretna 2008
Threave Rovers
Bonnyton Thistle (assuming Abbey Vale would have no interest)
Kilwinning Rangers
Pollok
Largs Thistle
Irvine Meadow
Kilbirnie Ladeside
Auchinleck Talbot
Glenafton Athletic
Hurlford United

 

I think pretty much every single club that has been added there is better than what is currently circling the drain at the bottom of the Lowland League and most of them will attract bigger crowds for the relegated SPFL teams. Obviously there would be a lot of work to do to make that operational, and there could be alternative structures (even a conference system) but I think this would be a move forward in terms of better embracing the population split in the country.

[FairWeatherFan]

24 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I'd imagine the E/W split will be more appealing to the Lowland SPFL clubs now than it would have been when the pyramid was originally developed. With the involvement of the West Junior teams, each of those two leagues will individually be stronger and more appealing than the current Lowland League. Based on current standings (and assuming current H/L boundary) you could have something like:

LL East (16)

Kelty Hearts
Bonnyrigg Rose
East Stirlingshire
Civil Service Strollers
Spartans
Stirling Uni
Gala Fairydean Rovers
Berwick Rangers
Edinburgh Uni
Vale of Leithen
Bo'ness United
Camelon
Penicuik Athletic
Tranent
Hill of Beath
Broxburn

LL West (16)

BSC Glasgow
Caledonian Braves
Cumbernauld Colts
East Kilbride
Dalbeattie Star
Gretna 2008
Threave Rovers
Bonnyton Thistle (assuming Abbey Vale would have no interest)
Kilwinning Rangers
Pollok
Largs Thistle
Irvine Meadow
Kilbirnie Ladeside
Auchinleck Talbot
Glenafton Athletic
Hurlford United

 

I think pretty much every single club that has been added there is better than what is currently circling the drain at the bottom of the Lowland League and most of them will attract bigger crowds for the relegated SPFL teams. Obviously there would be a lot of work to do to make that operational, and there could be alternative structures (even a conference system) but I think this would be a move forward in terms of better embracing the population split in the country.

I'd say the main stumbling block is the SPFL clubs would rather not get relegated

There's still a lot of fear over it. Montrose & Brechin would apparently go bust in the HL. East Stirlingshire & Berwick have been swallowed up by the LL.

3 leagues at tier 5 make it harder to return.

You also just saw the SFA restrict voting rights to Tier 5 and above. Suggestion behind that was to ensure the SPFL would have a majority. 48+ sitting at the 5th tier swings a possible advantage to the lower leagues.

Ps. Clydebank, Cumnock & Petershill are some of the names I'm sure would be in ahead of Bonnyton.

[craigkillie]

15 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Ps. Clydebank, Cumnock & Petershill are some of the names I'm sure would be in ahead of Bonnyton.

It was just representative of the current standings in the West Juniors, and assuming that since the SoS are currently part of the pyramid they would take at least a couple of places.

[Marshmallo]

I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Option Three.

I can't reveal my source, but I have it on very good authority that the ERJFA coming in at tier 6 next season is "a done deal".

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Option Three.

I can't reveal my source, but I have it on very good authority that the ERJFA coming in at tier 6 next season is "a done deal".

We know that's lies so wind your neck in. Its option1 that will happen. Their is 4 clubs talking of moving to eosfl