Junior football, what is the future?

[Marten]

The west of Scotland is, and always has been, a penalty kick. It wouldn't take much to form and the sfa wanted the entire block to move over as a one. Rightly so, the eos and LL rejected having another set up at the same level in the east. Mr Johnston used this as his vehicle to delay the clubs in the West joining the pyramid, citing that his mandate was for everyone over as a one.

 

I am though all with you on asking clubs if they want to join in both the east and west. The sfa can set up a wos league to feed the LL and invite applicants. Any ersjfa sides wanting to move, join the EOS (those below the tay that is) and anyone who wants to stay (Kilsyth etc) can stay. No one forced upon anyone else and no club forced against their will.

 

Middle ground, a reasonable outcome, everyone gets what they want. A pyramid for those committed to it and others who can still keep their junior identity if they wish.

The west clubs voted by a large majority for pyramid entry. TJ needs to drop the "all in or out" attitude (which isn't "all" anyway as he conveniently forgets about the north) and agree to the west joining the pyramid as one bloc. It shouldn't be hard.

As for the remaining south of Tay ERJFA clubs, it seems  clear to me they aren't interested at all, otherwise they'd have moved over to the EOS and definitely not have gone ahead with this regionalisation. If they are happy with playing in what's effectively a West Lothian & Fife league, just let them and let the rest move on.

 

 

[Vollyman]

The west clubs voted by a large majority for pyramid entry. TJ needs to drop the "all in or out" attitude (which isn't "all" anyway as he conveniently forgets about the north) and agree to the west joining the pyramid as one bloc. It shouldn't be hard. As for the remaining south of Tay ERJFA clubs, it seems  clear to me they aren't interested at all, otherwise they'd have moved over to the EOS and definitely not have gone ahead with this regionalisation. If they are happy with playing in what's effectively a West Lothian & Fife league, just let them and let the rest move on.
 
 

TJ cannot drop “ the all in or out” as this was decided at the AGM by the clubs (including the North region). The AGM will be held on the 15th June where the clubs may or may not change policy

[Marten]

13 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

TJ cannot drop “ the all in or out” as this was decided at the AGM by the clubs (including the North region). The AGM will be held on the 15th June where the clubs may or may not change policy

Fair point, however, he seems to have dropped the north already. I get the impression that the north has only been an afterthought in this whole process.

Don't get me wrong, I'd personally love to see all juniors (and eventually the amateurs) in the pyramid, I've been pretty clear about wanting 1 non-league structure without barriers for clubs that want to move up. This includes Tayside, the north and the remaining south of Tay ERJFA clubs. However, it's pretty clear that the easiest of all to implement is the west as they can just slot in as a whole below the LL without much objection from any senior league. That's why I think it would be good to start with that and move on to the more complex issues after. Then those clubs are able to move on with things like licensing if they wish. If it works out well in the west, that might improve other clubs' views on the pyramid too.

[gaz5]

TJ cannot drop “ the all in or out” as this was decided at the AGM by the clubs (including the North region). The AGM will be held on the 15th June where the clubs may or may not change policy

He already dropped the North, as everyone knows, showing his "all or nothing" mandate to be convenient bullshit when it came to the West and East. Think pretty much everyone involved can see that not dropping the East in the same way he did the North was a calculated move to ensure that the Juniors wouldn't lose anyone. 

 

 

That's for Junior clubs who are pissed at another wasted year, particularly those in the West, to take up with TJ at the AGM.

 

Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort any more. Set up a WoSFL and let any West clubs who want to apply for 20/21. Juniors can stay junior if they want, no one has to do anything they don't want to, TJ can retain whatever is left of his empire in the SJFA.

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

25 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

TJ cannot drop “ the all in or out” as this was decided at the AGM by the clubs (including the North region). The AGM will be held on the 15th June where the clubs may or may not change policy

TJ dropped the North Region like a hot potato and if he could have gotten away with it, would have left them behind whilst West and East entered the Pyramid, although he didn't want the West coming in on their own  (where is Kilbowie Benches these days?)

TJ  has a mandate only when it suits.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort any more. Set up a WoSFL and let any West clubs who want to apply for 20/21. Juniors can stay junior if they want, no one has to do anything they don't want to, TJ can retain whatever is left of his empire in the SJFA.

Bang on.  The SJFA should be nowhere near the Pyramid, leagues enter Pyramids not Associations and it is clear that self-interested Associations are just a blocker.

[glensmad]

Can anybody advise what the actual wording of the mandate given to TJ was ? Did it actually state that all the juniors must join at the same time ? Or did it simply give him the mandate to get all of the juniors into the pyramid ? If it was the latter, then there are genuinely no blocks to the West coming in now, with the other regions to follow when agreement is reached.

I genuinely don't know the answers to my questions above, perhaps somebody with a copy of the minutes from the meetings could advise what the actual wording was ?

[Burnie_man]

8 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Can anybody advise what the actual wording of the mandate given to TJ was ? Did it actually state that all the juniors must join at the same time ? Or did it simply give him the mandate to get all of the juniors into the pyramid ? If it was the latter, then there are genuinely no blocks to the West coming in now, with the other regions to follow when agreement is reached.

I genuinely don't know the answers to my questions above, perhaps somebody with a copy of the minutes from the meetings could advise what the actual wording was ?

I posted bits from AGM minutes from 2008/2009 a few months back on here where he refers to the mandate agreed in 2002.  The SJFA should only enter the Pyramid as a  block, or words to that effect.  He is probably the only one left who still remembers what was discussed and agreed in 2002.

As I have said several times, nobody objected to the West entering the Pyramid for next season.

[glensmad]

I posted bits from AGM minutes from 2008/2009 a few months back on here where he refers to the mandate agreed in 2002.  The SJFA should only enter the Pyramid as a  block, or words to that effect.  He is probably the only one left who still remembers what was discussed and agreed in 2002.
As I have said several times, nobody objected to the West entering the Pyramid for next season.

But what was agreed at the vote last year is what I'm interested in. Was it an "all in at the same time" mandate, or an "all in whenever it is agreed" mandate. They are very different.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, glensmad said:

5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I posted bits from AGM minutes from 2008/2009 a few months back on here where he refers to the mandate agreed in 2002.  The SJFA should only enter the Pyramid as a  block, or words to that effect.  He is probably the only one left who still remembers what was discussed and agreed in 2002.
As I have said several times, nobody objected to the West entering the Pyramid for next season.

But what was agreed at the vote last year is what I'm interested in. Was it an "all in at the same time" mandate, or an "all in whenever it is agreed" mandate. They are very different.

Was it even discussed to that level of detail?  or was it just a simple "do you want the Juniors to join the Pyramid"

[glensmad]

Was it even discussed to that level of detail?  or was it just a simple "do you want the Juniors to join the Pyramid"

If that is all that was agreed, then it would appear to me that there is no instruction from the clubs that everybody must go in together. If the instruction is simply to get the juniors into the pyramid, then if it is possible to get it done bit by bit then that surely has to be what is done ?

[Burnie_man]

If that is all that was agreed, then it would appear to me that there is no instruction from the clubs that everybody must go in together. If the instruction is simply to get the juniors into the pyramid, then if it is possible to get it done bit by bit then that surely has to be what is done ?

I agree, so the question needs to be asked of TJ and the heirachy as to why the West aren't starting next season in the Pyramid.

[Arthurlie1981]

The way it seems to me is that goalposts have moved due to the North’s decision that they didn’t want to go into the pyramid. At that point there should have been regional discussions for the way forward.

We are now in possession of all the facts and know that the SJFA have let the clubs down. For me the only way to sort this out is for the creation of WOSFL with invites sent out for season 20/21 unless it is left for the regions to sort it out.

[GNU_Linux]

The way it seems to me is that goalposts have moved due to the North’s decision that they didn’t want to go into the pyramid. At that point there should have been regional discussions for the way forward.

We are now in possession of all the facts and know that the SJFA have let the clubs down. For me the only way to sort this out is for the creation of WOSFL with invites sent out for season 20/21 unless it is left for the regions to sort it out.

The regions themselves imo should have direct representation on the PWG going forward. Massive mistake not having them on PWG in the 1st place & there'd be way less of a mess communicating back happenings to the clubs in each region.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Letting Tom Johnstone negotiate the pyramid is how id imagine either Boris or Farage negotiating brexit would go.

[Arthurlie1981]

The regions themselves imo should have direct representation on the PWG going forward. Massive mistake not having them on PWG in the 1st place & there'd be way less of a mess communicating back happenings to the clubs in each region.

As much at TJ is taking most of the flack a lot of blame must be laid at the door of the SJFA Management Committee. They have the final decision in all this. They are the clubs and direct the secretary to do their bidding. What have they been doing all this time?

[pipedreamer]

1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

As much at TJ is taking most of the flack a lot of blame must be laid at the door of the SJFA Management Committee. They have the final decision in all this. They are the clubs and direct the secretary to do their bidding. What have they been doing all this time?

 

They’ve been too busy listening to TJ coming back and saying “it’s a done deal guys, in at tier 6, no problems at all”

 

All the time there were no objections to the WRJFA being part of the pyramid next season if their registrations and discipline were handled by the sfa/identical to everyone else’s. At that point TJ prevented his clubs from joining the pyramid and that is exactly where the blame lies, he himself has stopped west clubs being in next season to keep his job. Remember that at the AGM when he says “I tried guys but the big bad EoS prevented us from joining”

[Bestsinceslicebread]

3 hours ago, G4Mac said:

The west of Scotland is, and always has been, a penalty kick. It wouldn't take much to form and the sfa wanted the entire block to move over as a one. Rightly so, the eos and LL rejected having another set up at the same level in the east. Mr Johnston used this as his vehicle to delay the clubs in the West joining the pyramid, citing that his mandate was for everyone over as a one.

I am though all with you on asking clubs if they want to join in both the east and west. The sfa can set up a wos league to feed the LL and invite applicants. Any ersjfa sides wanting to move, join the EOS (those below the tay that is) and anyone who wants to stay (Kilsyth etc) can stay. No one forced upon anyone else and no club forced against their will.

Middle ground, a reasonable outcome, everyone gets what they want. A pyramid for those committed to it and others who can still keep their junior identity if they wish.

11

I will say, I only spoke to a couple of committee members who were aged in their mid-fifties and that was their view, they don't see the future or positives in seniors but then again they may not know the full ins an outs. Also, I believe when all the clubs voted to join the seniors in one group, (west) they were not to know that the SFA changed the rules after citing they all must have floodlights if joining.

There will be clubs who will join with the rest of the West juniors but for example, PollokFc and MaryhillFC I cannot see their stadia changing to accommodate floodlights or the rules and regulations, (entrances for away supporters etc.. (sure that's a stipulated rule lol).  There are so nuisance information coming from everywhere, there are people making decisions for their own gain.
There should be a WOS as well as a EOS and SOS, it's just common sense and then leagues under that.
The SFA should ask for a vote, just get their finger out set up a WOS and either invite or ask for applications, simples.

[GNU_Linux]

I will say, I only spoke to a couple of committee members who were aged in their mid-fifties and that was their view, they don't see the future or positives in seniors but then again they may not know the full ins an outs. Also, I believe when all the clubs voted to join the seniors in one group, (west) they were not to know that the SFA changed the rules after citing they all must have floodlights if joining.

There will be clubs who will join with the rest of the West juniors but for example, PollokFc and MaryhillFC I cannot see their stadia changing to accommodate floodlights or the rules and regulations, (entrances for away supporters etc.. (sure that's a stipulated rule lol).  There are so nuisance information coming from everywhere, there are people making decisions for their own gain.
There should be a WOS as well as a EOS and SOS, it's just common sense and then leagues under that.
The SFA should ask for a vote, just get their finger out set up a WOS and either invite or ask for applications, simples.

At the upcoming SJFA AGM it'd be worth re-surveying members to gauge any changes in attitude as the survey was done before the exodus out east.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

IThere will be clubs who will join with the rest of the West juniors but for example, PollokFc and MaryhillFC I cannot see their stadia changing to accommodate floodlights or the rules and regulations, (entrances for away supporters etc.. (sure that's a stipulated rule lol).

Maryhill already have floodlights and met the stadia licensing requirements when BSC Glasgow were lodge there and were licensed. Although there has been additional changes to the licensing requirements since then that might need work carried out.

Edited June 5, 2019 by FairWeatherFan